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Steam Ban due to fire risk (updates)

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by neildimmer, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Reading David Wardales book, The Red Devil, a lot of work was done in South Africa putting steam into the ash pan, mainly in connection with the GPCS, but it also had the effect of damping the ash. Could not something like this be used solely to damp the ash/cinders down or has it already been tried?
     
  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Some locos have ashpan sprays and also better designed grates and ash pan combinations. Really useful when containment is critically important. If the LE movement of 44932 really was ashpan and if the fire at Exminster today was ashpan again, I think the point is made. In instances like this NR doesn't care how a fire may have happened it's the fact that it's happened that matters. That's the whole area that locomotive operators should look at dispassionately. I'm not talking about grounding particular locos - just a 'horses for courses' approach. When the going is soft you can use them all. When it's firm you use those that are least risk. Pragmatism.
     
  3. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    That all sounds very sensible. However, I'm not sure how practical it is, given that (1) nobody has the ability to accurately predict more than a few days ahead if the going will be soft or firm, and (2) we have a limited pool of mainline approved locos with time-limited volunteer support crews who may not be readily deployable at short notice to different parts of the country on different days from those already booked.
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    When we move into the season of demonstrably dry weather, and the timing of this does vary but you can see it coming, then that's when to think carefully about the locomotives. On the basis of yesterday and today, 44932 cannot be trusted on its own at present so don't use it or use it in tandem with a diesel as has had to happen. Ditto for any other locomotive with similar risks. What Network Rail could do is go down their list of TOPS nos. and mark the card for each one. They won't do that of course and why should they? But it's now blindingly obvious that our fleet of heritage locomotives all have the capacity to cause problems but some are clearly more problematic than others. So the steam movement should stop using them or not let them out in dry weather without a diesel. Yes, it will upset any individual owner whose locomotive is affected but at least NR would see the steam movement behaving proactively rather than waiting till their wrists are slapped.
     
  5. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    Can you (or anybody) see it coming? Back in June, the Met Office held a widely reported conference (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/archive/2013/meeting-unusual-seasons) at which it was suggested that we were in for several more wetter than average summers.
     
  6. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Part of it read, (hope I'm not quoting too much out of context):-


    To my simple Yeti mind that reads as "Could be getting wet summers. Or decent ones".

    Right, I'm off to become a weather forecasting consultant.

    Hmm... £1,000 a day?

    And by the time I've analysed all the data beamed down from the dustbins in the sky that is going to be a few days for each forecast. Or that's what I say on my invoices. In actual fact each forecast will take about ten seconds to make. "Yeah, gonna rain tomorrow. Or it could be nice and ot. Dunno really"


    ;)
     
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I think the term you are looking for is 'Changeable'.
     
  8. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    My point exactly, gents.
     
  9. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    And there is no real let up for at least the next 10 days. In this area at least, the South East, we are going to have temperatures in the upper 20's next week & hardly any cloud. The only change looks like next Friday when it is supposed to be cooler & wet.
    Then the following week looks bone dry again with temperatures in the mid 20's.
    Must be getting near to be the driest/hottest/ most prolonged summer on record.
     
  10. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    1976 ?
     
  11. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Rained at the end of August/start of September that year. And didn't stop for a long time.

    But the "dry" did start a lot earlier than this year.
     
  12. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Maybe, but every year they always say it's been the most blah, blah, blah on record.
    If I remember the weather in 1976 broke up mid August.
     
  13. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    From Wiki:-

     
  14. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Looks like KentYeti & myself have different versions, I thought it started early/mid June in '76 as opposed to late June this year.
     
  15. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    I seem to recall it rained on the day they appointed a minister for drought.
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    My point about the weather and the issue with steam is that by the time something happens - i.e. a lineside fire - to cause NR to take some action, it's been pretty obvious from the previous week's weather and the short term forecast that a problem is looming. What happens is that everyone ignores what is blindingly obvious rather than take a voluntary pre-emptive step, tell the punters that it's going to happen, and thereby avoid or at least minimise the problem escalating. There is evidence that NR can be pragmatic as did not Braunton demonstrate today it could run solo over a similar route with no issues, unlike 44932? One difference in this particular case may simply be the fact that 25 years separate when they were (re)built.

    To decide not to run steam trips in the hottest/driest periods is one answer. Or use only those locomotives that can be trusted and partner those that can't with a diesel. (That line saves you reading #200!)
     
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  17. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    So glad it's still air show season. No worries about fire risk with those.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Would have thought the CAF have started one or two in their time!

    Tom
     
  19. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Forecast for Devon today was overcast all day and about 16 degrees, even this morning it was still showing the same thing. I've just got home and applied aftersun to my head! If they can't even get the forecast right on the day, what chance do they have predicting the weather a week/month/season away?
     
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Having seen videos of their "recreations" of Pearl Harbour, Hiroshima etc., those fires were deliberate and didn't result in a glider only policy. :)
     
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