Severn Valley Railway to launch £4,000,000 share issue.

Tom makes some interesting points re vintage carriages and suggests a premium for vintage Santa. Well with the current set up, which does work 4 sets are needed. Two are MK1s and the other two are LNER teak (with the odd Mk!) and the LMS set. With a fixed santa operation, Arley, there is no guarantee that you return on the train you arrived on. You might arive by LMS and return BR so from a logistics standpoint a premium service would be an issue with the current operation, Where you can make money on a premium service is dining. The dining set is mainly GWR and is marketed as such. The saloons must bring in valuable revenue from cream teas or from private hire.

SVR has a new marketing initiative based on the family market. Whilst there are grumblings there are more families out there than there are enthusiasts and INMHO its a market worth persuing.

Main line might be profitable but it is also risky. Cancelled trains, not by the operator, may result in compensation payments. GFG quotes gross profit out of which must come costs for main line certified operating staff. You need to sign the road. For NYM it is a fixed operation for which staff can be trained. Otherwise we would need to hire in the knowledge. It works both ways of course as WCR staff may not sign SVR (one does by the way) and SVR conductors were required for the SVR Bluebell excursion. Roster clerks are already exercised in finding staff for the core services. The number of additional staff required for excursions may not be as readily available as GFG thinks.

Never say never but lets tread cautiously

 

I simply based that idea on our experience. We have a core Santa service, aimed squarely at the traditional family market with young children, using mostly Mark 1 / Bulleid vehicles. But then we have an entirely separate premium "Victorian" Christmas, using the Chesham set and 4 wheelers and one of the Chatham engines. That makes money in a premium way, but doesn't seem to be especially pitched at enthusiasts. I think the core market tends to be families with grown up children; groups of friends; couples taking their retired parents / uncles / aunts for a trip etc. There is also the added opportunity for "value add", in the fact that tickets are sold as whole compartments and include a hamper of food - so additional opportunity to add to the profit margin.

Maybe it won't work on the SVR - you won't know unless you try. But I don't see why a "1920's Christmas" pitched at a non-enthusiast market wouldn't work adjacent to Brum, when a Victorian Christmas works adjacent to London...

Tom

 

Pretty much my view. Not something for the foreseeable future. IMO something is required to attract attention and support, but I don't think this is it.
As an aside, I think the family market is worth it, though I'm not sure a) that the current marketing is that effective (just something picked up from the summer) and b) enough importance is attached to the enthusiasts. Really the SVR should be just going for everyone.

 

There is a well-known saying that 80% of operations require 20% of management time and 20% of operations require 80% of management time. Running the core SVR service is routine and almost certainly requires little management input. Going main-line is that bit (20%) that will require the 80% management input. IMHO, it is certainly the case with the NYMR Whitby operation (probably nearer 90%) and I suspect that it was similar with the MHR main-line operations, as alluded to by 21B.
I'm not sure that Tom's ideas in terms of premium services would work on a daily service, as distinct from the specific Santa season. The affluent part of Joe Public is not going to turn up in sufficient numbers to warrant a premium service departure at (say) 11.00 each day throughout the season. so the majority of the trains will need to be Parly's or their modern equivalent. There might be scope for putting a single premium charge vehicle in each train but isn't that really the equivalent of providing 1'st class accommodation?

 

Maybe something along the lines of the Bluebell adding the GN saloon on occasions with cream teas etc. This is in addition to the 1st Class accommodation provided normally.

 

Thanks to Bean Counter for his informative post about their "Whitby" Mk1's. Most interesting.

I think we have agreed that the SVR does not have a spare rake that could be brought up to mainline certification standards, and that it would be a most unwise venture financially anyway. Surely Tyseley dont utilise their NR registed set to intensively for it not to be available for hire?
To my mind though, it does not prevent the SVR from having a mainline registered steam engine available for the odd jolly away, but most of the time being a service fleet engine. The Black 5 being the case in question if a sponsor is stepping foreward. Anyway, that is best left to await developments rather than we do it to death here. Lets wait and see what happens.

Other posters have mentioned the attractions of the SVR's rakes of pre-BR stock, ie LMS, LNER and in theory two GW sets, but at present one GW set in need of extensive work. They are indeed attractive, and almost unique. I know you need to allow these old coaches to earn their keep, but sometimes I wonder if the volunteers who have put in so much time and effort into a restoration wonder whether the public give these coaches the respect they deserve? Earlier this year I was travelling in the superbly restored GNR 2701, which has a mix of compartments and a large open saloon with bench seats down each side. Inevitably there was a child stood on a seat, and another spilling a drink and crisps. Now I know this is an inevitable consequence of putting these coaches into ordinary service, and the alternative is to simply make them into non-revenue earning museum pieces, but if I were a volunteer who had sweated away on a coach for years I would perhaps wonder if my labours had been worthwhile. The upholstery fabric in this coach looked expensive. The overall restoration of seating and woodwork was craftsmanship of the highest order.

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You sure it was GNR 2701? Only thing is that it's purely compartments, 3 and 1/2 first and 4 third class.
Saloons? Was it one of the GWR nondescript saloons with a centre table?

 

Perhaps I am wrong. dark blue upholstery as far as I recall.

Whichever, still a superb restoration job.

46118

 

Sounds like the GWR inspection saloons which are used for cream teas quite often and at times are quite popular (even though they've changed the service style and it isn't such good value for money now )

 

Sounds like 2701 then...was the outside teak?
Yes, it is beautiful job, even though the outside is looking already a bit worn. I think this is due to being at an end and not being sheltered as the other coaches in the set.

 

On reflection I am really not sure. The carrige as I said was part compartments and part this open saloon with seats down each side--but still with a full length corridor. Could well have been GWR in fairness.
Anyway my point was, here was an absolutely superb restoration job open to the rigours of the travelling public, but we need these restored carriages in the main to earn their keep.

I might add though, a totally different experience to a Mk1 !

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It may have been 9103. http://www.flickr.com/photos/svr_enthusiast/9493836517/
Restoration recently complete.

 

Thanks Brian, it was indeed 9103. My colour perception was a bit out. Superb job all the same, credit to all concerned.

regards

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Looks like the narrative of this thread is going off topic a little - no surprise there ! The original proposition delivered some excellent lines for discussion.

The accountant that lurks in the back of all our minds should remind us that there is only one line that really matters.

The bottom one.

 

Hint taken gios, so trying to return to the title of this thread, a relative air of calm appears to be the case at present, with work going on in the background on the Bridgnorth Development Project. The GM's December Roundup comments that a Holdings Board meeting on 27th November saw a presentation from the project sponsor assisted by the chairman of the Conservation and Heritage Committee.

Five main elements were discussed: the listed building, access, public realm ( dont ask me what that means...) accommodation and operations. There was an examination of the financial performance of retail and catering at Bridgnorth. Finally the presentation looked at plans and draft building designs for new buildings. Further work continues, including looking at two further options for catering locations.

The GM concludes by saying that further detail will be released in the new year.

I suppose the tangible work so far at Bridgnorth has centered around sorting out the shed/works, with more engineering space made available inside and office and stores moved into "portacabin city" outside. Certainly looks as though one result of this is going to be more locomotives inside and being overhauled, including "Hagley Hall" which featured in the share appeal.

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"Public realm" is basically any of the public areas of the site (external and internal) and how they appear to the public. So that would include everywhere from car parks to approach roads (if under SVR control), footpaths through, I imagine, to platforms, waiting rooms etc. In particular, it would be concerned with anything that effects how those areas are experienced by the public, so would include surfaces, signage, street furniture (bins, lights etc).

Quite a broad term, but in the context of a heritage railway, you could read it as getting the details right - it is what would make a difference to a visitor, between arrival and actually boarding a train, to making them feel they are in a slice of 1930s Shropshire rather than a slice of 21st century Shropshire.

Tom

 

Is my mind playing tricks, am I imagining or hallucinating ?
I clearly remember reading a rather contrite and member friendly GF-G post in this position yesterday evening.

 

One of the problems that work against getting the Public Realm right is well meaning individuals that implement "improvements" and repairs with little regard to recreating/retaining the historic feel. Were I to cite examples they could include galvanised pressed steel manhole covers, home made laminated signage and conspicuous modern advertisements.
It is hoped the Conservation and Heritage Committee will address as many of these types of issue as possible.

 

Don't forget spelling and grammar

 

Indeed!

I'd be looking for three things to happen, if they haven't already:

Firstly, a statement of what exactly you are trying to preserve / recreate, particularly with regard fixed infrastructure. That would include what period you aimed for at each station (1950s is very different in appearance from 1900s, for example). That could be consistent across the whole railway, though I would have thought in an organisation as big as the SVR, and with the line so big, an approach like the Bluebell where different stations have different planned "eras" might be appropriate - not everyone in the membership is going to agree on a favourite period, and having different eras also helps the educational remit. That plan would also encompass the physical constraints of each site within which the era would have to be adhered to.

Given the type of organisation that the SVR is, that's the sort of plan I'd imagine would need broad membership approval.

Secondly, once the timeframe for each site is agreed, you'd want a set of specifications for things such as paint colours, signage, advertisements, surfaces etc, that would be appropriate for that era.

Finally, (and this is the hard bit!) you need a fully functioning process whereby any infrastructure work - whether repairs or new works - that falls within the "protected" boundaries is agreed by the heritage committee. Sometimes, there will have to be compromises, partly because heritage railways deal with non-country-branch line numbers of visitors who need facilities to suit; partly because modern building control, H&S regs etc might impose compromises on traditional ways of doing things. But the key is to stop individual groups "doing their own thing" in a way that is detrimental to the whole plan, without at the same time stifling their enthusiasm.

Good luck!

Tom