Sat 15th March, The Cumbrian Ranger.

No valances

 

I'm going to try and answer as many of these as poss in one pass.

- Enthusiast & Standard Class is at the front of the train on the outbound - the stock is the opposite of normal as it got turned on the Valentines and will get turned back to normal on the Canterbury in 2 weeks.
- The 47 will be on the back when "Bittern" is at the front - it will not be inside.
- Bittern is not returning to Tyseley with the train - it will remain at Crewe.
- We had some very tough decisions to make in the last few days. WCR were kind enough to make 46115 or 45699 available to us, but since we have sold this trip with Bittern, and we guessed (correctly it would seem) that most passengers have booked to run behind the A4, so we have tried to keep as much of the A4 as poss. If we used 46115, there would be less steam milage as it would only be from Crewe > Carlisle > Farington Jctn.
- We did look at using 46115 for the Carnforth > Carlisle portion with Bittern doing the rest, but there were not 2 steam paths available over Shap.
- Bittern is at present prohibited from Carlsile....including the through road. The through road actually isn't a through road - it joins P3 at exactly the wrong spot.
- We have special permission for Bittern to back onto the train in Carlisle P3 for the return journey. Bittern "....may ONLY be allowed to enter/exit the south end of platform 3 for the purpose of coupling/detaching from the charter train carriages."

Again, for those of you travelling on Saturday, we offer our sincerest apologies. Please believe us when we say we explored every possability. Also thanks to JS / AT & PW at WCR for putting up with us calling every 5 minutes with "Can we do xyz?"

 

RTT says it will reverse up from London Rd Junction into Platform 3.

 

Can I ask if the Class 47 will be manned or be "power 0ff" and just be coming along for the ride?

 

And 60009 was barred first so inferring balances not the issue. As said, 2 weeks time on The Hadrian will be interesting. Maybe there will be a means of the A4 avoiding the station en route to Hexham.

 

Thank you most warmly, Ben, for the comprehensive and open way you have explained the difficulties over the Bittern trip on Saturday, both in yesterday's letter and in the post above. We can tell from your posts just how much strain and pressure you and all your colleagues have faced, and just how hard you have worked to get the best possible deal for passengers. It must have been hard to take all the suggestions, but some of us at least were genuinely trying to be helpful. Please do not let the rest get under your skin any more, and we all look forward to a good day out on Saturday.

Peter in Manchester
http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/

 

Good question ! Hopefully it will be off, or at least just ticking over. Would be disappointing if it assists up Ais Gill and Wilpshire.

 

Fair point, you are a punter I'm not, but 46115 Crewe to Preston is pretty rare too.

 

Ben, I'm a little confused here. The VT Letter says:

We depart Tyseley Warwick Road for Crewe behind 47773 with all the passenger stops as planned..
. Upon arrival at Crewe we swap our loco for A4 "Bittern" for the sprint along the WCML to Carnforth.
At Carnforth, we will detach "Bittern" and re-attach 47773 for the continued journey to Carlisle..
Unfortunately there is nowhere closer to Carlisle to detach "Bittern".
. After approximately 2 hours in Carlisle, "Bittern"will re-attach as we begin our journey south over the
majestic Settle & Carlisle route over Ais Gill towards Hellifield. We have included a 15 minute photostop
in the picturesque station of Appleby on the way. After fllling up the tender at Hellified, we
continue towards Crewe, passing through Clitheroe and Blackburn before re-joining the WCML.
. At Crewe, 47773 will rejoin the front of the train to haul us back to Tyseley.

yet if I'm reading your post correctly Ben, the train will in fact be "top and tailed" whenever Bittern is on it.
If we are being "top and tailed" shouldn't it have said that in the letter?
Can you clarify?

 

Sorry, not quite understanding the latter bit - the timings for he diesel-hauled section from Carnforth to Carlisle are almost the same as the WCME timimgs (actually there are about 5 minutes slower) - that's one steam path, then Bittern follows behind in a second steam path?

 

I think you'll find the rationale is that Bittern - as a "light engine in steam move" can be looped to allow faster trains to pass whilst there is no path available to allow a through move from Carnforth to Carlisle. As Ben notes VT and WCRC have tried their best but some things just can't be fixed in time and changes must be made. Disappointment for punters but - at least - VT will provide running behind "Bittern" on most of the journey albeit not necessarily on the part which many customers were looking forward to.

 

Despite all the excellent work to salvage as much as possible from this tour, as well as explain the background etc, one has to ask the question, why is it all happening so late in the day ?? I would suggest this is what irks most people as it gives them little room for manoeuvre ?

 

I understand that it's easier to path a loco+POB move, but my point was that the train is running diesel-hauled from Carnforth to Carlisle in almost exactly the same path as was used by 46115 on the WCME, so the Scot could have worked Saturday's tour (unless the VT train is substantially heavier than the WCME) instead of the Class 47, with Bittern following behind in its booked path. I accept that there may be other reasons why this is not practical and I'm sure that VT and WCR have looked at all the options. It's just Ben's statement that two steam paths aren't available that I don't understand as, unless I missing something, there are ineed two paths - the "WCME" path which is used the the diesel-hauled train and the LE+POB path used by Bittern.

 

Can someone from VT please confirm that the train isn't going to be top and tailed, 4464 on the front with 47773 on the rear from Crewe to Carnforth and from Carlisle to Crewe? Bitter experience has shown that when this happens on a WCRC operation the box generally works on the rear. I can't imagine that happening as surely the easiest and cheapest solution would be to use a Carnforth Diesel for the relatively short hop from Carnforth to Carlisle, the only time a box will be needed.

 

47773 is BRM's therefore using it saves the cost of hiring in from 10A.Ben's post suggests it will be on the rear from Carlisle-Crewe atleast.

 

I believe I read earlier in this thread that the Network Rail gauging train was seen running through Carlisle station in mid February. Either some tougher gauging criteria have been introduced, or work done at Carlisle which made the platforms out of gauge, or a technology glitch, must have produced the outcome that A4s won't fit. Presumably what our friends at VT and WCRC have been battling ever since is the 'Computer say no' syndrome.

Peter, on a bright morning in Manchester
http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/