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Saphos Trains 'Golden Arrow' - 26/10/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by jackshepherd, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Before jumping off the deep end at Network Rail, can you also ascertain that what LSL submitted in the bid to NR is what ran on the day?

    And there does have to be an element of faith by NR placed onto TOC's and FOC's, that what they are placing onto the Network is fit for purpose. Otherwise you'd be wanting an NR representative at every location where a train is released from a maintenance or stabling location onto the mainline, as a method of access control.
     
  2. Phil K

    Phil K New Member

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    So, we’ve been in dining class today.

    despite all the problems, the team from Saphos have been exemplary and the food excellent.

    their new lounge car was in the consist which is where we spent most of the stall, chatting with fellow passengers and the catering crew, most of which are from the Northern Belle.

    Dad and I always travel dining, usually on Steam Dreams, Vintage Trains, UKRT and RYTC. But the team from Saphos today have taken it to another level. It certainly feels like we’re on the British Pullman with the quality of food and drink on offer, and the bar car was the icing on the cake.
     
  3. Shoddy127

    Shoddy127 Member

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    So Don, does this change your attitude on travelling on steam only tours?

    Delving into the information that's been provided on here and elsewhere, it seems strange behaviour for a professional company to have even considered taking 70000 over the Kent route not only with 12 coaches, but unassisted at this time of year.

    With regards to the comments on DB, DB have only provided the drivers who sign the route, nothing more and nothing less. To add to this, if it was in conjunction with DB, the rescue loco would have been a DB loco and most probably been despatched from Hoo Junction and not the GBRF 66 that has clearly been on railhead treatment trains. They would have also insisted the diesel would have remained attached throughout in case of an emergency.

    After covering this route with 871 back in May this year, I have to say my eyes were well and truly opened as to how tough the Kent lines are. Not taking a diesel today comes across as a very strange decision which has unfortunately backfired on the TOC and passengers.

    Not sure how Network Rail could have had an impact on events today, they received the itinerary from the TOC who informed them that all would be well, as you also state. Surely with the weather forecast and the time of year we are in, the sensible approach should have been taken? No ifs, buts or maybes, just do it right.

    To those people who I know have a real passion for mainline steam, running it in 2019 is a special privilege, one we dream of passing onto future generations, including my own two sons if they choose to get involved. Causing easily avoidable grief for NR is most certainly one way of ruining that dream.
     
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  4. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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    A few shots as she approached Shoreham (before things went a tad awry)

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  5. A1X

    A1X Member

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    This was described as a train with a real "wow" factor. Presumably they weren't expecting it to be "wow, I can't believe it ended up running that late".
     
  6. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    This really was foolhardy in the extreme, when the Night Ferry used that route it was always doubleheaded for a reason
     
  7. twr12

    twr12 Member

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    RIS-3440-TOM is the standard for operation of heritage trains.

    Free download from RSSB website.

    Ultimate responsibility for operation of a train is with the TOC.
     
  8. JDTTRAINS

    JDTTRAINS Member

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    The 7MT Still looking very handsome today, all issues aside. Fingers crossed she could remain as No. 70014 for a short while longer, even though it had been advertised as appearing as the 'Duke' for just the one off.
     
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  9. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Pleased to see that the return to Victoria wasn't too late. That trip does seem to have slipped under the wire of common sense in that the only equivalent activity in the south east we can compare it with is the British Pullman a week back that ran with a diesel because it's leaf fall season. Not that the diesel on that trip did very much as I understand it but that's not the point.

    I guess that the surprise for me was not that the trip today ran without a diesel as clearly that was the plan. It was the fact that it was allowed to load up to 12 that was the surprise.

    I just hope that LSL hasn't blotted its copybook with NR over today.
     
  10. Landshrew

    Landshrew Member

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    Funny that I ended up choosing almost the same locations as @mrKnowwun, Seal first and Bearsted the second (The latter out of necessity really). A shame the tour came to such an ignominious end, 70000 couldn't even have the ECS to herself, the 47 was sent onto the front! A word from a member of the DB crew was that they'd requested a diesel banker and LSL did not provide! Blame can be attributed to both parties I find in this situation, as an MPV passed on the Up road minutes before 70000, with the Down run scheduled after her. Doubt an earlier Down run would have made that much difference, but that's just the usual guesswork. A diesel should have been provided, let alone insisted upon by NR due to the conditions, but as others have said, this falls on LSL overloading the Brit and not covering themselves for the inevitable. The lack of speed at Maidstone East was another factor (possible TSR?) All that said, she was a cracking sight, and I hope 70014 hangs around a little while longer... just not as long as 34052! DSC_0621 (2).JPG DSC_0649 (2).JPG
     
  11. Robert Dove

    Robert Dove New Member

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    The railway thing is a beast that so many try to tame in their own way.
    All sucombe trying to know best at times.
    Its a shame that people have to suffer new, improved? ways of thinking when going back through the years there is only one, successful way of running the job.
    This applies to all company's not just limited running occasional TOC's.
     
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  12. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Does anybody know which 66 it was?
     
  13. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Yes we were badly delayed all the way round the Catford loop to Shortlands but kept the schedule from there to Maidstone
     
  14. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    I don’t think the recovery was handled very well as well over an hour was spent hand sanding and trying to restart which with a class 7 on 450 tons was never going to happen in any conditions let alone the less than perfect bad yesterday.
     
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  15. Jeremy English

    Jeremy English New Member

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    Two small corrections to statements made earlier in this thread, made after looking at videos of the trip. Firstly, the train was assisted out of Victoria with the class 47 belting out smoke as it shoved on the back (I presume it was unattached and dropped off on Grosvener Bridge, or is that practise banned these days?). Pity it didn't remain on the back.
    Secondly, the first 66 (GBRF no 66726) didn't come off at Ashford as it was still on the back as the train entered Canterbury West. The replacement was one of DB's own, so that it probably why there was a change of 66s - the GBRF one was probably needed back on its leaf-clearing duties ASAP. The DB one was EWS liveried 66187.
     
  16. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Just as well we gave up and went home by service train. Pity about those who didn’t ax we had all been told to be back for a 1745 departure. Was there another announcement after we left?
     
  17. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    No it doesn’t change my attitude. I was amazed to find that the load was 12 when I expected 10 which would probably have been ok. With 12 I expected the DL to stay on the back. Did Saphos have a hand in this by taking too many bookings as the train was so popular?
     
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  18. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Surely even 10 on Bearsted would have been a big ask with a wet slippery rail?
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    That's hard to tell. But let's remember that when Tangmere slipped to a stand on Martin Mill bank in November 2011 it only had 10 on the drawbar. Some will argue that a Brit might have been more sure-footed but the main point is that the crew probably didn't stand much chance given the load, irrespective of how skilful they were .

    As I understand it this was a stall not a slip - others can confirm. So not dissimilar to when one of the most experienced drivers at West Coast just couldn't get the train up the hill out of Oban on a curve because the resistance was too great. On that occasion we simply puffed to a halt with no slipping - i.e. the classic evidence of too heavy a train.
     
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  20. twr12

    twr12 Member

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    Better than infamy.....
     

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