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Saphos Trains 2020

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 61994, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. LittleRedTrain

    LittleRedTrain New Member

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    Thanks for the replies regarding the Statesman coaching set.
    Presumably 70000 is still not well after its failure on the Fellsman.

    Of other possible interest/concern is this article:
    https://www.railmagazine.com/news/n...-confirm-face-coverings-required-for-charters
    which seems to suggest that the DfT is not happy with Saphos claiming that their tours are exempt from the face covering restrictions.
    Not looking forward to having to do 0600-midnight wearing a mask all day (except eating/drinking).
     
  2. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Is there any view yet on whether 34046 will run to Hastings on 'The Sussex Belle' on 10 September? It is listed on the 'Railway Herald' excursion page and is not shown as cancelled or postponed.
     
  3. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    I'm amazed that anyone imagined for a moment that charter trains do not qualify as public transport and that they could be exempt from the face covering rule!
     
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  4. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    46100 Royal Scot departed from Crewe on time at 07:50 with the Fellsman.

    Consist today:
    Blood and custard mk.1 support coach
    5 chocolate and cream mk.2s
    4 blood and custard mk.1s
    Green class 47.

    <BJ>
     
  5. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Member

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    Public transport though you will have people getting on/off all over the shop. If you are on a long working with several stops you can be sat near multiple people. Tours everybody joins before a point and then leave after that point on the return working and you will only be in near the same people.
     
  6. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Member

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    Even if Saphos publicly say you need to wear a mask other than when eating/drinking I doubt their staff will be briefed to enforce it. Only BTP can I can't see them getting on charter trains.
     
  7. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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    I get the argument that it isn't public transport, but then I would say it should be classed as with any other indoor "visitor attractions and entertainment venues", where you are required to wear a face covering.
     
  8. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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  9. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    After yesterday’s torrential rain this morning was dry when I left home. As I parked on Chapel lane at Hoghton steady rain began to fall. I was the only person on the overbridge. 46100 could be heard approaching as she whistled for the several crossings lower down the bank. About 5L she arrived, working steadily towards the nearby summit; my wave was acknowledged by the driver. (Always brings a smile - still a kid at heart.) No sanders and the diesel was merely ticking over. Once beyond the summit the exhaust beat quickened with the exhaust hanging in the trees. It’s stopped raining now.
     
  10. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    By definition it IS public transport because anyone can book and travel and, unless everyone is strapped into their seats, there will be movement around the train with various close contacts being inevitable. I hate masks but am complying with the rules. I simply don't understand how anyone (e.g. Saphos) could seriously claim that (their) railtours should be exempt. The enforcement of the rules is, of course, another matter, but it was very irresponsible of Saphos to claim that they are somehow special here.
     
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  11. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I thought that it took a company that appeared to be trying to improve the offering in the market, not a long way the other way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  12. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Which part of it being a train with bookings available to all (with no C19 testing before boarding) makes it not public transport? Which part of it separates it from all other forms of transport where the public, whether booked or not, can travel in large numbers close together with the freedom to move around the train at will?
     
  13. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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    Think you missed my point .I also have no problem with it being classed as public transport. I was just saying that even if you say it isn't public transport, the requirement to wear a mask still stands under current government guidelines either way.
     
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Agreed completely - but my point was; who in their right mind would not class it as public transport? I think Saphos have set things back by being arrogant enough to asssume they are above the rules (and the competition), and thus potentially bringing more scrutiny on the whole sector's C19 viability, which may be unhelpful.
     
  15. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    LMS 46100 at Waitby Common as the sun came out .

     
  16. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Member

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    I beg to disagree. The mask rule on public transport is to protect those who have to use it for essential purposes (e.g. going to work or shopping) from finding themselves in a situation which is uncomfortable or potentially dangerous since it is not always possible to guarantee any form of social distancing. That makes perfect sense - some people have no choice but to use public transport and should not be thrown into a dangerous situation. However charter trains in my view are different since a) They are not "public" in the sense that anyone can just turn up and get on one (although that has been allowed up to a point in the past), and b) They do not serve any purpose other than for people to enjoy the trip - they are totally non-essential travel. That means that everyone on board is there because they want to be there - not because they have to be. People need to perform their own risk assessment and take responsibility for themselves and their own safety. If you don't think it's safe - don't do it!
    I don't believe Saphos are being irresponsible at at all - they appear to be doing their best to ensure that some social distancing rules are observed and just want to provide their customers with the most pleasant experience possible, which in my view means not having to wear a mask for hours on end. That isn't arrogance in my book.
    Anyway as I say we can all take responsibility for ourselves - if you don't like what they're doing don't book with them - it's as simple as that.
     
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  17. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    As someone who has travelled with them recently, I agree completely. Saphos went out of their way to ensure a safe environment and I would happily book again.
     
  18. MikeParkin65

    MikeParkin65 Member Friend

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    All of which would be perfectly reasonable if the risk was limited to those who choose to take it. But it isnt. The major problem with this virus is that it is highly contagious so we have no choice but to err on the side of caution in terms of measures to control transmission. These faux libertarian ideas that we have ‘choice’ in the face of this disease are dangerous - especially to the most medically vulnerable.
     
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  19. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    The following to me are the major fundamental differences between charters and public transport:

    -Total control over numbers travelling, with limited, reserved ticketing. No turnover of passengers.
    -Control over where people sit.
    -Control over stock and the ability to adapt a limited amount of it for social distancing.
    -Complete control over suitability of stock for use.
    -Limited, planned stops, with disembarking controlled / staggered.
    -Enhanced staffing, with each carriage manned.

    All the above are massive variables on public transport, as seen on the overcrowding on trains to Barry Island at the start of the summer break.

    As far as I can see, the only difference between Saphos and West Coast is the requirement to wear masks at your seat and even then you don't need it whilst you are eating. Saphos require masks at all other times, including moving around the train. Given the amount of food consumed by some on rail tours, (some people are continuously eating) , is it really that different??!

    I couldn't be further from 'anti mask', I am definitely not 'right wing' or even a 'libertarian'! I voluntarily wear a mask in shops, even though that is not a requirement in Wales. I am however in favour of a safe, enjoyable environment, where you can relax. I believe Saphos have managed this and it would certainly seem masks are a barrier to travelling for some, so to have choice can only be a good thing to enable all of us to get back to what we enjoy.

    I have felt unsafe on several occasions in the last few weeks as restrictions were eased, all I can say it wasn't on the Devonian trip with Saphos.
     
  20. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    If one is "medically vulnerable" and find the outside world dangerous, one has nothing to worry about, as one should be staying at home and being responsible for their own health.
     

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