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Rules of the photo challenge

Discussion in 'Photography' started by simon, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    That's a shame and I hope you will reconsider as I think your comments were useful.

    The abiltiy to leave anon comments is one of the problems of fotopic. I have only had one set of abusive comments on my site -and as seems often to be the case the author did not identify himself

    I had hoped that we would all be bigger than this and not start mud throwing as the challenge has I think proved very useful. It only takes one individual though...
     
  2. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for your comments simon

    In terms of helping people improve we can offer advice and support but one of the best ways is to get your hands a little dirty as it were

    Some of you are starting to join us and I look forward to seeing you this autumn and the open offer stands for anyone on NP , or friends to join the 30742 charters list . Spring has been quiet for me as I became a Dad (other things have to take priority !) but we have an autumn programme . I know that it costs, I split the costs from the railway amongst a number of photogrpahers and sell those places . We usually have a really good day out , lots of run pasts , hopefully timed to coincide with the sun , a good crack , the odd footplate ride and an opportunity to learn from others

    ps only 93 hits to 100,000 on my fotopic site !
     
  3. mattspencer

    mattspencer Member

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    I think someone needs to realise that you can praise photos as well as criticise them :smt002
     
  4. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    True Matt, but I think also they should bear in mind its a case of suggesting improvements rather than "this is good", "this is bad" comments
     
  5. The Wise One

    The Wise One New Member

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    There is an outside chance that I may be the 'someone' referred to by Matt. If so, here is my reply; if not, apologies for misreading your intentions.

    I have commented on the vast majority of photos submitted to the Challenge, and I can tell you that the quality range is very wide, from superb to........well, shall we say, rather less than superb. Those phots that I think are praiseworthy get praise. Those that I think are pretty good but improvable get commented on accordingly, with suggestions on how I think they could be improved. There is, however, no nicely-nice way to tell someone that a shot that they've submitted has few or no redeeming features, and contains a number of elementary mistakes. It would be doing them a disservice to say otherwise. If you want people to help you by giving advice, the best thing you can hope for is that the advice is honest and straightforward. That's what I'm trying to do.

    I think that the Challenge would be more useful and certainly more entertaining if there was a wider range of comment from a larger core of regular commenters; to have only person commenting on a phot is I think less than ideal. My views are only my own opinions and I'm aware that opinions differ, especially on so contentious a subject as whether a photo is 'good'. Merely disagreeing with previous comments without offering an alternative view, however, doesn't help the guy who posted his (or her) shot and I hope we can avoid that.

    To Twadogs: thanks for setting the ball rolling. I know you have a living to earn, but your comments are always appreciated.
     
  6. mattspencer

    mattspencer Member

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    It wasnt you, but said person has been a little more positive recently as well
     
  7. mattspencer

    mattspencer Member

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  8. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    No they can be of any rail related theme.

    However over the weeks non heritage themed ones have tended to be ignored - which is a pity.

    It is good to see the increased number of entries over the past few weeks.

    I think that TWO's comments are on the whole fair (having received both praise and criticism myself) and most of the people should be able to benefit from the comments.

    The fact that we have had only one comment that has resulted in a complaint is I think a good sign.


    Could I ask however that TP identifies him/herself.
     
  9. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    Just a thought, would it be orth adding the photo rating scale thing on the photos? That way people can say what they think without commenting?
     
  10. twa_dogs

    twa_dogs New Member

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    Frankly no.

    It is meant to be a constructive criticism arena, not stars in their eyes. The purpose is to help us to improve our work and in doing so move photography of rail and rail related subjects forwards. While giving the option of a 0-10 scale might win over more people prepared to have an opinion, it won't win over those prepared to say why they have an opinion. I'm sorry I have to disagree with someone on here in such an abrupt manner, but numerical ratings are based on prejudice and conformity and this was not put forward to be that kind of show.
     
  11. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    I have to agree.

    The scoring on fotopic is very arbitrary and open to manipulation.

    I deliberately disabled it when I created the site.
     
  12. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    Fair enough chaps, was just a thought to try and get some more people involved :-k
     
  13. twa_dogs

    twa_dogs New Member

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    fair thought chap, but lets take it steady and grow this enterprise a bit. After all with the number of commentators regularly submitting if we suddenly had 200 pictures submitted it could get a bit laborious. Lets try to build both sides of the scheme up gradually, that we way we don't get lost in the rush and are able to give due thought and attention to our efforts on both sides.
     
  14. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    That is true , but the reviewer also needs an image to praise !

    without wishing to be too derogatory there haven't been that many top draw images submitted . given the fantastic spring we have had that has surprised me .

    regards
     
  15. twa_dogs

    twa_dogs New Member

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    Hmm methinks we all need to realise that the point of this exercise is to help people who are keen to improve their work to do so. This means offering both subject and technical advice as well as praise where due. If faced by something that is not to your taste for whatever reason, don't just turn round and slate it, after all for some people placing their work in a public arena is a big step and while i recognise that some material will inevitably fail the grade those offering criticism must do so in a constructive manner. I have found the best way to achieve this is to imagine I'm on a "job" and the pic is the scenario i have to work with and i must make something of it. Granted that in some cases i would not have been there, tried it or have placed it in the gallery, but it still is my responsibility to make sure that my comment helps the person to learn without putting them off.

    Looking back, crit sessions at college seemed to be designed to take people and their work down to component pieces and then build them up again. There were no winners or losers (that's why i disapprove of ratings) and everyone was free to take away what they could learn both of themselves and others. The process was designed as much to cause the questioner to question themselves as much as the person and work before them.

    For those of you who may be tempted to attribute anything "trick" my way, i thank you for the flattery but to reassure those of you thinking about taking part and feeling put off, I'm taking as big a pasting here as i did in first year crits. It's safe to say that my subject knowledge is a little lacking, but it is very useful to see what people believe to be preferred standards of subject presentation in this area. Additionally it is most intriguing to see how choice of title/caption can push how people read the image.

    i will own up, I have submitted one played with image (accentuated rather than an outright lie) and i will be doing more to test other theories/ideas since this is done for personal rather than professional pleasure and is the most fun learning anything I've had in a long while.

    To all, both those submitting pictures and those offering criticism, i ask that you be prepared to take as much as you give. Above all enjoy.
     
  16. Beaker

    Beaker New Member

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    are you only allowed to upload 1 photo per week ?, and for the desired week do the photos have to be from that week ?
     
  17. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    nope the limit on loading phots have been lifted, you can load, within reason, as many as you want.

    Photos can be taken at any point in time - see mine from 1971 :)

    though more recent is the norm.
     
  18. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    It seems the new albums for each week have stopped lately, any reason for this ?.

    The amount of photo's being submitted has dropped away too, maybe the two are connected ?.
     
  19. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    with people being away on holiday we decided at the start of the month to just do one big folder for the summer, then recommence once the holiday period is over.
     
  20. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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