If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

RTC 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 61994, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,360
    Likes Received:
    2,603
    I agree there would be a market for four or five hour trips. But I wonder if the modern day railway with nowhere to park the train and very limited pathing opportunities has made that more difficult. If we think of the big centres of population, what are the realistic options? The Harrogate Circle--out of the question. Anything out of Manchester, hopeless. The Carnforth--Preston--Hellifield circuit--possibly, but there's really nowhere to park the train for a stop en route. Crewe--Chester--Shrewsbury--Oxley---Crewe--- possibly, but is it too long for a double trip and is there enough of a catchment? Even the S and C Staycation express with a 125 only really manages one main revenue trip.

    I think the likelier option is 12 and 13 coach trains with 7 or 8 class power, possibly with a higher proportion of first class. The good thing for WCR and RTC is that they do have that option.
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    21,830
    Likes Received:
    41,503
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Length is interesting. I wonder at what point adding miles (and hours) to the journey puts the operational cost up without actually making much odds to those on the train - or their willingness to purchase a ticket, or the price they are willing to pay? If you have steam haulage for four hours - does turning that into eight hours really become the make or break for the majority of the passengers as to whether they think it is good value or not?

    (Probably related to - how many of those on the train are doing it because it specifically takes in a storming run along Glen Close before the epic assent of Ben Fogle; and how many just want a nice day out with steam drifting past the window and some pleasant scenery outside?

    Tom
     
    35B and 26D_M like this.
  3. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2019
    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    185
    Location:
    Kirkcaldy
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Tornado was meant to go round the Harrogate circle for Valentines weekend this year and they may try that at some point in the future. That tour was off because of Covid not because of gauging issues as far as I know.
     
    Paul42 and andalfi1 like this.
  4. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,374
    Location:
    Powys
    To be fair to RTC, they have rung me this afternoon and offered me a table for 4 which they now have available. I have upgraded to a family ticket. This is an acceptable resolution, so myself & family can now travel a little more happily in our own space.

    I would urge anyone with a booking with RTC to give them a ring and discuss if they have concerns, lady I spoke with today was far more understanding of the situation and very helpful.

    Thanks to all on here for your feedback and comments.
     
  5. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,374
    Location:
    Powys
    If operators are going to charge more, they need to offer more. I'm afraid the conditions of an aging mark 1 in standard class don't justify £100 plus on their own in the 21st century.
    Heritage Railways have done well to add value to their standard product during the pandemic by having hampers, cream Teas etc, plus off train experiences. Vintage Trains have Club Class which offers light catering (essentially a premium standard), SRPS of course offer dining to all on the train as an add on.
    I would also add (given my recent experiences) there must be a market for having exclusive use of a space, an enhanced family ticket for exclusive use of a table or compartment.
     
    26D_M and Oswald T Wistle like this.
  6. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    1,474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    They usually have spare capacity in the Buffet ( even on fully booked tours) so they have probably moved your party or the person due to sit at your table to the Buffet.
     
    acorb likes this.
  7. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2018
    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    484
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gricer and Grandad
    Location:
    Wallers Ash
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    RTC have not been operating in accordance with Govt guidelines and in any case could make the wearing of masks a conditions of carriage if they wanted to but obviously are going for total freedom. I have made my point to them and cancelled my bookings . I will now wait until things return to proper normal not the Boris version
     
    3ABescot and acorb like this.
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Glad to hear they sorted you out on the DCE.
    Some of this of course is offered already, light catering is really First Class on RTC but you do get a far more comfortable seat (even in the Pullmans that I am no great fan of).
    Over the years the use of the buffet seems to have gone from a permanent lengthy queue to quite low usage. Not sure if the offering not good enough, too expensive or folks prefer to bring their own.
    There is a limit (if there was a market for complete dining) to how many you can cater for in dining unless you keep adding kitchen cars and more staff. More KC's probably mean less seats and the price spirals ever upward.
    It is difficult how you could provide exclusive space use without impacting the revenue stream unless you charge full price for the unused space. A table for 2 in first of dining costs more of course than seats at a table for 4.
    Of course without knowing the actual commercial elements this is all just conjecture.
     
    acorb likes this.
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    33,114
    Likes Received:
    7,278
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    WCR are offering 3 1st class options now, 1st use the buffet, 1st light snacks included and 1st dining.
     
    Oswald T Wistle and acorb like this.
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    17,720
    Likes Received:
    16,744
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just wanted to say to @Davo that there's a lot in the longer post that the above is part of that many others would not have said. You also chose to say something publicly about things you said and did on this trip that will have annoyed other people. You seem to recognise that you may have been 'out of order'.

    The reason for this note is to say that on other social media, such a comment from you could easily generate many personal comments from other folk that you might not like .....and we would not allow on here.

    I'm pleased for you that none of this seems to have happened. Nat Pres should be a safe place for people whatever they say, however they say it....within the Rules.

    Just saying and thanks everyone.
     
    John Rowley, PaulT and 5098 like this.
  11. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    1,765
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It seems as if your cancelled booking has been snapped up! Don. I have just rang RTC and there is still a waiting list for Thursday week's DCE (45596 + 31806) and I have been added to the list.

    It will be interesting to discover what will end up working the other two Weymouth trips along with (fire risk permitting) 31806. The lady I spoke to was aware that 62005's earlier-than-expected withdrawal has ramifications for the Fort William-Mallaig operations and that all three Riley "Fives" could possibly be needed up there. Her advice, which I'm happy to pass on, is to keep an eye on the website.
     
  12. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    11,520
    Likes Received:
    11,409
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The three Riley 5s are already up at Fort Bill and will be there until the end of September when the two train operation finishes
     
  13. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    1,765
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes indeed, John, but according to the RTC website, 44871 was originally booked to come down south to work the last two DCEs and the Swanage Belle - and indeed the website still features a picture of it for these trains. Ian Riley has been happy in the past for one of his locos to travel down LE + support coach hundreds of miles in the past to work a couple of trains and then to return from whence it came. I guess this might have been a feasible option if there were four locos to share the Jacobite workings but with 62005 hors de combat for the rest of the season, this now doesn't appear to be an option.
     
  14. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    1,474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    A loco from the Carnforth pool seems the most likely and since a Jubilee has been gauged for DCE, WSSE and RD , the one that keeps changing name is the more likely of the two.
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    11,520
    Likes Received:
    11,409
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Three locos are needed for the Jacobite, two and one in reserve or boiler washout. If 62005 hadn’t failed the third Black 5 would have been down here.
    There are other engines available to cover the trip, it will just be a surprise when the substitute is announced
     
  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not only steam tours that are long days. This is the Statesman Weymouth trip on Saturday longer than a CME from Euston.

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U65390/2021-07-31/detailed
    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U65388/2021-07-31/detailed
     
  17. TheModster

    TheModster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    307
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Now been said that the return runs of the Dorset Coast Expresses that should've had the Swanage's U Boat heading back as far as Southampton are being diesel hauled as before.
     
  18. TheModster

    TheModster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    307
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yesterday's Dorset Coast Express run, captured at Wandsworth Town, Farnborough, Southamapton, Andover and Barnes Bridge:
     
    RalphW and alastair like this.
  19. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking again at those proposed timings when the U was involved there appears to be some things NR have not allowed for.
    1) Only 1.5 minutes was allowed for the U to be uncoupled in Platform 2 at Southampton Central. I would suggest that is totally unrealistic. Would they even allow uncoupling in Southampton Central these days. Not like splitting a couple of 444's.
    2) There was no water stop shown for the U's return journey to Swanage. Assuming it was topped up in Jersey Sidings how could it haul the tour and get back to Swanage?
    3) I have been on tours that have watered in the up loop at Southampton but that often is (and according to RTT was) being used by an SWR unit at the time the tour was there.

    All of that does seem to fit in the operational issue basket.
     
    twr12 likes this.
  20. AMP

    AMP New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    135
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well I wasnt expecting this

    "We are pleased to announce that our Cotswold Venturer on Saturday 21st August from London Paddington, Slough, Reading and Didcot to Worcester Shrub Hill is now scheduled to be hauled by Merchant Navy class steam locomotive no. 35028 Clanline."

    Andrew
     
    twr12 and Adam Tandy like this.

Share This Page