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RTC 2018

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    And, logically, the 7th July will also need some diesel involvement although whether separate paths are used will emerge in due course, I guess. The plan seems to be to have a six hour day at Bournemouth for passengers. That is enough time to do quite a lot with the train but given that it is returning via Andover, what is most likely is that the train will have a layover at Poole and it will be pulled back to Southampton in the evening before reversing.
     
  2. green five

    green five Part of the furniture

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    Damn it, just checked RTC website and Standard Class is full for 9th July. Can't afford the other classes at the moment.
    Will have to pop out and see this instead. Will be great to see 35018 in action at last after seeing her under restoration at the MHR for many years (before she went to Carnforth).
     
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  3. green five

    green five Part of the furniture

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    But fingers crossed there might not be much DL assistance......
    Previous RTC 9th July trips have been pretty good with WCRC crews allowing the Steam loco to do most of the work.
    The very memorable trip of 2010 with 46115 was excellent with the Class 47 (at the rear due to fire risk) only assisting out of Weymouth. 46115 put on a magnificent performance. The same day SD were operating with 30777 which had a Class 47 behind the tender which did most of the work all day going by the videos on YT and passenger reports at the time. Very glad I was on the RTC trip!

    More recently the 9th July trip with 45699 was superb with only minimal assistance from the Class 33 at the rear when departing Basingstoke on the return run.
    This trip even featured 45699 banking the Class 33 out of Weymouth as it was making hard work of the climb.
     
  4. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Active Member

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    I thought the July 9th trip was always down for diesel haulage from Yeovil Junction to Weymouth. So not taking it on the back means a London to Southall and a Southall-London LE move, and one Southall to Yeovil and then Weymouth to Southall. You may get possibly get away with the two long distance ones being to and from London, but I imagine it seriously impacts on cost. Then of course you have the issue of say a 10 coach train unassisted out of Weymouth and up Parkstone. NR may not fancy that I suspect.
     
  5. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Active Member

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    What was the historical load limit for a MN up Parkstone bank ?
     
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Active Member

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    Do not know official BR loading. A quick internet search did find a picture of an unrebuilt WC with 10 and also a report of 1o behind a MN. Of course a lot of trains had the Weymouth portion join more coaches at Bournemouth. Most of the videos I have in my collection, apart from the C.I.boat trains seem to have quite short trains west of Bournemouth.
    Last year if I remember the diesel was cut off the back at Eastleigh on the return. But that was a Saturday evening so paths may have been easier.
     
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  7. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Knowing that there are other regular contributors steeped in a massive experience of Practice and Performance on the Bournemouth/ Weymouth line, I would venture the following with some trepidation (and absolutely no precious ego in the event of contradiction). Looking back at my very dog-eared copy of Cecil J Allen's "British Express Trains No 2 Southern Region" there is a handy description of typical Waterloo/ Bournemouth/ Weymouth express train formations that includes a reference to the "Royal Wessex" being the heaviest regular train on the line, with a second class brake, second, two composites and a second for Weymouth plus a composite and second brake for Swanage - (and v.v.). So typically Load 7 or about 250 tons max. prior to the addition of up to 6 additional bogies (restaurant cars, kitchen buffets, brakes etc) at Bournemouth Central to make up a maximum full Load 13 consist.

    I thought it might be worth double-checking this with records of MN runs from Weymouth to Bournemouth held in the Railway Performance Society's archives and a very quick, cursory glance indicated no unassisted Parkstone Bank climbs with more than eight coaches / 290 tons max (although there are a handful of Load 12 runs showing a banker from Poole).

    But you are right - the fact that through services operated what was in effect just a portion for Weymouth meant that the more typical loading on most daytime services was probably more like a featherweight (for a MN) load of 4/5 /6 coaches.

    And I think I'd better leave it there for the input of those with proper first hand knowledge and experience of the line, rather than just a treasured 2-and-sixpenny abc publication.
     
  8. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Active Member

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    My only experience to date is last year's End of Southern Steam tour with '34052' which made an absolutely excellent climb from Weymouth albeit with superb rail conditions, with 10 up and dragging the Crompton, which only applied power on entering the tunnel, probably only to guard against the WC slipping on the damp rail, it was a great trip all round.
     
  9. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    In Winkworth's book Table 77 there is a log of 35021 with ten on going up Parkstone min 33. There is also a note of 34006 with 11 on making a good run from Dorchester to Poole then getting stuck on Parkstone Bank and calling for assistance.

    There are three logs of the Channel Islands Boat Train with 11 or 12 on but these stopped at Poole and will have been banked up Parkstone, as well as up to Bincombe of course. That train, the 4.23 from Weymouth SB must have been the heaviest one in normal service.
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    On two occasions Clan Line has taken quite a load up Parkstone.
    8/5/10 - 11 plus Class 66 - 520 gross. Pass Poole at 21, max of 40 before the climb and a min of 22.
    9/7/12 - 11/430 gross. Start out of Poole.39 before the climb. Min of 32. This latter one was when we started out of Weymouth with a Class 66 on the back so 550 tons gross. The climb was going ok until we primed as we passed Upwey at 16 mph at which point they called for the diesel to assist. (The fireman wasn't very pleased with himself over that one)

    I've never had a service train over Parkstone without assistance. As has been said the CI Boat was banked.
     
  11. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    The normal 5 or 6 coach trains were never banked.

    An old friend from the days of steam has checked his copy of the 1960 Sectional Appendix and the load limit was 400 tons f or a class 8 and 385 tons for a class 7, that's 12 and 11 coaches respectively. The only regular working which always seemed to be banked irrespective of load was the up CI boat train. The engine was a Bomo tank. 41320 did the honours on the last Friday of steam, 7th July 1967, but I have no record of what the banker was on the last Saturday 8th July when the train was worked by 35023 on 12 for 425 tons, but it was possibly a class 33.

    Incidentally Pete Roberts took 34067 on 11 unaided up Upwey in July 2009 when the DL failed, so it can be done though in these risk averse days it wont happen.
     
  12. bobsungod

    bobsungod New Member

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    34067 Tangmere IMG_8803.jpg load 11 unassisted on Parkstone bank .11 June 2011 at 0640 ,RTC Welshman ,ironically train stalled on Filton bank requiring diesel assistance to Cardiff
     
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  13. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    8 July 2017 ? Wasnt '34052' was seriously damaged on that trip by water carry over, with the 33 doing much of the work as a consequence. It took many months to repair.
     
  14. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Having participated, the 33 certainly wasn't doing much work on Upwey until the summit, and the New Forest section was the subject of fire risk rules. The carryover was not mentioned until quite a while after the trip, but seeing the videos suggested something had gone awry. The diesel shovage west of Salisbury on the outward was because an empty water tanker greeted the train.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    In the case of Tangmere I think it's fair to say that a special kind of driver was needed to handle Tangmere and Pete Roberts plus Ray Churchill are two such examples.
    On the 'carry over' point, it could be argued that this is potentially one of the more serious 'on-the-road' issues that can happen to steam on the main line. Yes, there is the means to deal with it quickly but when it happens it is often when the loco is under power on a gradient when the loco should be eased whilst water is cleared. That, of course, affects the pace and if it's happening on a critical part of a climb then there could be consequences. It goes without saying that no loco owner's engineer wants to see their loco priming.

    We sometimes forget that if you are going to push a loco a bit more than normal then it does require confidence on both sides of the footplate that this is the thing to do at the time and the loco is 'set' to do it. Risk averse means risk aware as well especially when there isn't another steam loco nearby in a shed waiting to slip out and rescue the situation!
     
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  16. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Active Member

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    This is the first reference to any problem I am aware of, but the 33 did not apply power until entering the tunnel, as confirmed by Mr Bulleid Pacific, still an unfortunate outcome.
     
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  17. banana patch

    banana patch New Member

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    Steam all the way from Weymouth to London is rare now even more so with a Merchant Navy so even with a Dl on the back it's still something to be pleased about!! glad I booked some time AGO!
     
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  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    As the route is via Yeovil junction, I wonder if 31806 may make an appearance and operate the tour in T&T from Yeovil to Southampton ? if she is available . its exactly the type of tour that the Swanage Mogol can be used for, with out it being to far from home .especially as the return is via Andover, so that could put the MN leading to Weymouth, and if the U class is available, it would be leading from Weymouth to Southampton with 35018 banking then the U can come off either return tender first, or go onward to Eastleigh to turn on the works triangle, before returning to wareham.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I just love an optimist! :D
     
  20. twr12

    twr12 Active Member

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    34046 was damaged by priming after that tour, on an engine & POB move.
     

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