Royal Duchy 2018

I didn't realise I had to study for a quiz, you can quote set formations all you like it makes no difference what so ever, Your in the minority on trains now, enthusiasts don't fill trains anymore, have to rely on the normal and diner racket,to make up the numbers but that blows your argument right out the water so we won't go there,

 

This is the Royal Duchy thread. Do you know how many enthusiasts dine or travel in first?

 

I'd stop feeding him if I was you.

 

Must be a quiet afternoon.

 

An illusion that started last Friday to see if myself and other support crew members were available for this trip. Unfortunately I have prior commitments this weekend so I'm not able to be join AT but I did try, although others are available so 871 will be going to the ball, even in not ideal circumstances. Having been on 5407 on one of the Duchy's a couple of years ago it would have been interesting to compare 871 in the same circumstances but our first summer for a few years has put paid to that and a driving turn at the Lakeside summer gala on Sunday.

Totally agree Mark, we all know the circumstances, let's just make do and wait for some rain. Anyway I shan't say anymore as I probably have no right to do so and don't want a certain moderator telling me off again......

 

By mods hat you mean bully boys hat, My complaint against your agenda against me is going in now, Either delete this post calling me out in public like a bully and I will withdraw the complaint,

Your Call...

 

Where is the water stop on Sunday please. Exeter? It’s pathed there for an hour stop

 

Please try to enjoy this site like everyone else

 

Perhaps a time for everyone to sit back and think before they type rather than escalate things further.

The specific point of contention seems to be @D1796 saying that those who would rather the train were cancelled than run diesel assisted were in a minority, which @D1796 estimated as being 1/6th. I think some mis-interpreted this as being an estimate of the non-dining passengers (which in some cases could be not far off for number of carriages), but how this was expressed started to further 'raise the temperature'.

There is a general tone, set by others, that, rather than welcome the considerable effort involved by all concerned, and no doubt cost to RTC, of ensuring 44871 provides a steam presence on this train instead seek to imply that the motive for this herculean effort is to 'con' the passengers into not being able to claim they paid for a steam train and didn't get one. Given the exceptional weather conditions, this seems a rather low insinuation.

I have no inside knowledge as to what proportion of passengers would rather cancel the train than have assisted steam, but I have to say that what @D1796 has said actually chimes with what has previously been admitted by some of those arguing the point - i.e. that the 'pure steam or nothing' brigade is quite small. OK, context of other comments may be everything but we seem here at times to have to 'two bald men fighting over a comb' scenario, namely steam enthusiasts resent steam being called 'kettles', diesel enthusiasts resent diesels being called 'boxes' or cans and some of both appear to struggle with being mature enough to resist doing one when they object to the other!

In light of this, I do find myself disappointed with all the threats made on this thread (which do nothing for the reputation of anyone concerned or the Forum) and would like to than @AnthonyTrains2017 for making one of the most sensible and appropriate posts for a while, as well as those detailing the efforts involved in getting 44871 in a position to work the train.

Steven

 

And that children is called a hissy fit.

 

As it goes I hadn't seen post #48 so thanks for referring me to it.

 

Excuse any misunderstanding but I'm struggling slightly to reconcile that statement with previous remarks because didn’t you opine elsewhere that diesel support or replacement are grounds for cancellation in your book? I happen to agree but have absolute admiration for the crews involved in getting 4871 in place by the way.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist or believer in nefarious motives either but I think making the assumption a show pony is better for customers than no pony is a weak one in my view given the premium rates a steam charter ticket commands. As I've said before, managing todays issues through some minimally compensatory means would surely negate all the additional costs Andy @TheMan mentions to operate as described? The other dividend being customers appreciative of token ex gratia offer probably more likely to book a later additional trip to get their steam experience, perhaps?

 

I honestly can see both sides on this - the last mainline steam charter I did years ago ran on a different day, with different locos and, whilst the same destination, involved spending time watching an event being set up rather than attending it. Hence, along with the size of the prices, I am unlikely to do UK mainline steam any time soon.

BUT - people will have made arrangements, costing perhaps as much as their tickets in some cases, to be able to travel and a last minute cancellation will not go down well. The weather is not really a factor within the control of the promoter, who does have a business to run and keep afloat. Presumably, those who believe it is better to cancel than have assisted steam would just have the promoters close down for the duration until it has rained enough for steam to be unassisted? Presumably, they feel the same about those preserved lines who are running assisted steam? Sorry guys, not a realistic option!

Operator, promoter and not least loco owner/support crew (and by allowing pathing, NwR) have 'moved heaven & earth' for this train to provide a steam experience and does any of us doubt that most of the passengers are grateful and would prefer this, although some will be disappointed and one would hope there will be/has been sympathetic treatment of any cancellation requests from those who are 'steam only or nothing'. As many on here of that view have said they won't book in summer, or if there is a danger a diesel is needed for operational purposes, or not assurance that there will never be diesel involvement for any reason has been forthcoming, that presumably means very few on this train will be affected!

Steven

 

totally agree its a complex issue and cancelling trains at short notice is not a viable option. Obviously a strategic decision has been taken that having a steam loco in the train, albeit largely inactive, is the best way to keep customers happy with what they receive and I don't doubt that in a lot of cases it will be enough to satisfy. Where I struggle a little to comprehend though, is that in doing so, the product is unfortunately sub optimal so ought reasonably to be subject to some, offer at least, of compensation. The size of the compensation need not be significant as it is principally a gesture to acknowledge the inferior situation caused by the circumstances. Many would probably elect not to take up the offer as the perception of satisfaction would seem to support but it would create goodwill nevertheless. Of course financial position of the promoter is worsened by chosing the show pony option rather than simply diesel hauled so a Catch 22 situation emerges.
In summary, I'd run pure diesel with an offer to compensate at a commensurate rate. The majority of day trippers would be ok with that and the [small number of] enthusiasts would probably have already been in touch to cancel anyway whether pure diesel or show pony.
To preempt any hostile responses, this is simply my opinion and no I don't run a business of this sort which obviously removes my right to comment, nor am I "instructing" "or demanding" on a course of action - it's just a debating point.

 

The Exeter stop is for water and pathing. Bit overlong but the nearby Great Western is open for a pint for those who are travelling...

 

Post #48 was absolute gold. It should be a "sticky" at the top of every page.

 

Always a risk of course as I was on a tour where we left the chef at BTM who had gone outside for a smoke. Loco change went very quickly guard told driver ready to go, driver contacted signaller who if I remember correctly said if we could be gone inside 3 minutes we could leave.
Chef only had a packet of cigarettes and a lighter with him (dressed in his chef whites) managed to get a ride on an FGW HST and be at Paddington before us, lucky of course that was our destination.

 

Not so much a risk as Exeter is a pick up point. We always get back by 1115 ish just in case.

 

Unlikely.
Platform 6 (Up main loop) has no road access to the country end of the platform. As for the London end, it all depends where a bowser lorry can park safely close to Red Cow crossing.

120+ miles (Taunton to Par) between water stops infers that the diesel will do nearly all the work and 44871 will be there for photos, sounding the whistle and the controlling brake valve. ( And of course meeting the perceptions of many of the passengers.)

For some posters, please get over having a diesel in the train. It has been custom and practice in North America for many years for steam excursions to include a diesel loco. ( An ES44AC is ugly when compared to a 47 or even a 66.) Some US steam locos have a diesel control stand in the cab so the steam loco driver can use diesel assistance as required at the pull of a handle. Please just realise how lucky we are in the UK. Network Rail could quite easily have said "no steam" and have been so accomodating for a marginal traffic.

Cheers, Neil