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Roy Watts warns of more diesels on the Bluebell

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 73129, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. tamper

    tamper Member

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    Replace/rebuild Sherriff Mill Viaduct.
    Buy the field to the south of said viaduct.
    Build an embankment (with the clay cap material from Imberhorne) in said field linking SP with Ardingly direct.
    Triangle alows trains direct to SP from both EG and HH.
    Turn trains on triangle.
    No need for turntable.

    Job's a good un'.
     
  2. Axe

    Axe Member

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    Correctly it's an "amenity area", which as far as I'm aware includes a visitor attraction and an area for wildlife conservation. The provision of an amenity area on this site was one of the conditions imposed by the planning authority in their granting permission to allow the dumping of inert spoil retrieved from Imberhorne, into the triangle and to extend the embankment at the end of the Ardingly Siding.

    Chris
     
  3. tamper

    tamper Member

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    snip
    The original material from here being under the top car park at SP.
     
  4. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

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    There are various changes being made at the Bluebell with demolishing of buildings at SP and new layouts and also with speed restrictions at Sharpthorne Tunnel.

    To me, I spoke to a driver (Ex chairman) and he mentioned about the 08 having problems the other day (Black Smoke Bellowed out and loss of power) The 'U-Boat' got lit up and came to the rescue, being put on to the service train and the C-Class handling the shunts! My point is that a Diesel is alot more sensible and efficient in handling these tasks, rather than waiting for an 1.5hrs to get a loco into steam! And chucking as much wood as you can to get the heat in!!!

    I think the 08 is am ideal loco to have on the line, with another as a backup! And i also think a Thumper would be nice to see on the line for a bit of variation!

    Just my Two-Pennies worth!
     
  5. Axe

    Axe Member

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    Presumably you have never crewed a train worked by a class 08 diesel then?

    With a maximum speed of 15mph, a 'Gronk' is fine for shunting, but there its usefulness ends. If the Bluebell were to acquire another diesel loco for operating future engineering trains, it would be beneficial to bring in something far better, for example a class 33 or a class 73. The class 73 that worked the spoil trains earlier this year outperformed the class 08 on the same duty by a long way.

    Chris
     
  6. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

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    I didn't mean anything about the Bluebell Crewing a train hauled by an 08 shunter! I am sure if you read my post it will explain what I mean?

    A shunter is a shunter afterall, nothing more and certainly not capable of a service train! And i think that the Bluebell will certainly benefit with another Diesel (Higher Capacity)either as a standby or a service train and as i mentioned in my last post with the possibility of a Thumper thrown in for some variation (Only if that can happen)??
    A Thumper can then do Shuttle services and possibly bring more to the line with the extension to East Grinstead and if and when the Ardingly Section gets going???
     
  7. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    So if a Thumper is so attractive - why are there no successful diesel heritage lines?

    The paying public want steam - not diesels
     
  8. ovbulleid

    ovbulleid Member

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    http://www.mnr.org.uk/

    http://www.WensleydaleRailwayAssociation.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesbourne_Valley_Railway

    You're right, there are no successful diesel only lines, it's a really ridiculous idea. what does 14 years of experience (in the case of the former and best example) show us? that a no-steam line is doomed to failure, doooooomed i tell ye...
     
  9. Keelar001

    Keelar001 Member

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    Here we go - steam versus diesel; I suppose the descent into bickering was inevitable.

    And things were going so well.....
     
  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A Thumper is a C&W maintenance nightmare and that is one reason why the Bluebell turned down the offer of one. If they're so bloody wonderful how come the Moors put its one up for sale?
     
  11. Lewisb06

    Lewisb06 Member

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    There are far far more successful mixed traffic railways than steam only railways.

    In fact if you look at the top 5 railways (based on fare paying passenegrs) they all run diesels at some point in their timetable.....proving that there IS room for diesels on preserved railways
     
  12. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

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    I'm not a Diesel fan but when you look at the Mid Norfolk Railway, it has run mainly Diesels since it's conception and is very popular as are other Railway Diesel Galas such as (NYMR,MHR etc) so there is room for Diesels on preserved lines. But I just hope that the Bluebell doesn't sell it's soul again by running another Diesel passanger train.
     
  13. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    That Top 5 being?
     
  14. Lewisb06

    Lewisb06 Member

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    NYMR, SVR, WSR, Paignton and Swanage.

    Then there are others inc GCR, Llangollen,KWVR, Gloucester&W, NVR, Lakeside & H..and there are probably many others could add to the list that run/use diesels which helps to make them successful
     
  15. Brider

    Brider Member

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    On Wednesday I spent the day at the MHR specifically because they run one steam train and one Heritage DMU in normal service. I know that the Bluebell has observation coaches for the well-heeled but at the MHR the DMU is the only real chance to sit behind the driver and look at the infrastucture ahead.

    I am always surprised how much the line twists and turns, which I cannot really appreciate from a steam or diesel-hauled train, not being agile-enough to lean out of the window. I am also surprised how the two-car DMU purrs over the Alps almost on idle. As always, its horses for courses and a bit of variety adds to the enjoyment.
     
  16. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Interesting thanks - (I would be picky and say that D7535 only usually gets one rostered turn a year at Paignton, otherwise it is all steam)
     
  17. tom92240

    tom92240 Part of the furniture

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    Quite right, the amount of doors on those things is a headache. We had that issue with the 1950's Kings Cross suburb non-gangwayed Mk1's, the maintenance of such coaches with many doors (and small, leaky, windows) per side was found to be beyond ability and out of timescale with needing them in traffic.
     
  18. Lewisb06

    Lewisb06 Member

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    True it doesnt get much work..but the point is that it is there and is used.

    Having "mixed traction" gives railways greater flexibility, does saves time and money (eg shunt required, start up a diesel, finish shunt switch off) and opens the railway up to different markets, therefore leading to a greater possibility of more income/profit.

    Having a steam or diesel only policy does restrict the railway to a "smaller" market as opposed to a "mixed traction" railway.
     
  19. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

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    I think the passenger numbers have more to do with being located in tourist honeypots - the North Yorkshire Moors National Park (plus Heartbeat connection), Severn Valley, and bucket and spade tourists for the last three (plus the Isle of Purbeck and Corfe Castle for Swanage).

    Just going back to the original topic, I know we've gone down the lines of "what is preservation?" before now, but to have an all steam service and a large proportion of the infrastructure and shunting trains operated by steam power throughout the year, must surely count as recreating the past to a greater extent than using a Class 08 diesel to do the work? It is something different from most other railways and it provides an opportunity to use the smaller locos more regularly (thus justifying overhaul costs), it adds to the spectacle and it provides a means of maintaining a working practice that was an everyday part of the railway industry in the early part of the 20th Century.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
  20. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

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    I think a Thumper would look better on the Bluebell compared to the Moors... Can you picture a Green thumper sitting ay Horsted Keynes station??? I can! Would make a great photo Opportunity.
     

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