If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Rother Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by nine elms fan, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,861
    Likes Received:
    5,848
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think that similar methods were used with all the heritage railways that were acquired directly from BR with the track still in situ. Where the railway was a statutory one, BR applied for an LRO to cover it and effectively downgrade it to LRO status. The heritage railway then applied for a transfer order for the LRO. This method saved a lot of money in legal fees, etc. Things were so much simpler, then!
     
  2. collet1930

    collet1930 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    25
    I've heard that their may be a problem with the farmers that own the land ( thats nothing new) between the A21 and junction road.First things first.Land before level crossings.
     
  3. martin butler

    martin butler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    384
    It is one farmer, the other two are prepared to sell, the one that is holding out might come round , he is i believe under pressure from his family who are pro rebuilding the railway that is why a transport and works order is needed, enabling the company building the extension to get a compusory purchase order if needed all this does not effect the Kesr, we are not funding the extension, we might provide the labour and expertise with the track and equipment but have no financial input to the project
     
  4. seawright

    seawright New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    26
    What happens when the line finally joins up? Will the Kesr & Rvr remain two distinct and separate entities?
     
  5. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    I believe the intention has always been for the K&ESR to operate the completed line. RVR was set up as a separate organisation to protect the K&ESR from financial risks and liabilities arising during the very long gestation of the project.
     
  6. martin butler

    martin butler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    384
    Yes Miff, that is correct ,Once the rebuilding stage is complete and both sections joined up, then the Kesr will take responsibility for operating the line though out. but i would expect that there will be persons from the RVR who will be seconded onto the board , after all, they will be in effect giving us the new section of line , having taken the risks and costs themselves
     
  7. howard

    howard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    209
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Ship's Engineer
    Location:
    Sandwich Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think you will find that if the KESR management think that operating the extension will affect the viability of the KESR then they won't run it! Running and maintenance costs will increase, possibily without much of an increase in income.
     
  8. b.oldford

    b.oldford New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  9. howard

    howard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    209
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Ship's Engineer
    Location:
    Sandwich Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not really. The K&ESR GM is on record recently as saying they won't run the extension to Robertsbridge if the business case isn't favourable.
     
  10. nanstallon

    nanstallon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Westcountry
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Surely, the whole line from Tenterden to Robertsbridge would be more authentic if run as a single service, and the whole K&ESR would be that much more attractive. I long for the day when I can buy a ticket from Falmouth to Tenterden via Reading, Redhill, Tonbridge and Robertsbridge. Maybe I shall live to see that day.
     
  11. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    198
    I've heard it said a number of times that it would be impossible to reinstate the line from Tenterden to Headcorn. A glance at Google Earth suggests that there are houses in the way above Tenterden, and an industrial estate at Headcorn, but am I right in thinking that the big problem would be the number of level crossings which would be needed? Not that I'm advocating a northern extension for a moment, you understand; this is purely idle curiosity.
     
  12. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    It may yet be some time off but I guess they will have to make their minds up before RVR applies for a TWA Order, since I am sure evidence of strong K&ESR support would be essential if there was a Public Inquiry.
     
  13. martin butler

    martin butler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    384
    By that time, some members of the board will have been replaced and some employees will have left , the GM has also stated that when we open to Robertsbridge he will retire , so it wont be his decision to take, its for the board to make that decision, the extension will be completed and we will operate it what other way is there? one way or enother, and if members of the board try to prevent it, do you think the membership would stand by and let them?
     
  14. howard

    howard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    209
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Ship's Engineer
    Location:
    Sandwich Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Of course the K&ESR doesn't have to operate the extension. It isn't ours and it would be ridiculous to take it on and run it if it's not viable. The board has a duty to look out for the K&ESR and should they let it go bankrupt there would be serious concequences for it's members.

    However I'm not saying that the extension won't be viable, I've no idea if it will or it won't but I hope it will..
     
  15. Andre

    Andre New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    K&ESR Commercial Manager
    Location:
    Tenterden
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    More authentic yes, but authenticity alone doesn't pay the bills. We do all hope however that it will make the K&ESR more attractive! There are no guarantees that any extension would generate sufficient additional revenue to improve the profitability of the overall operation. Like most railways, purchase of a ticket alone does not cover the cost of provision of the service.

    Tenterden to Headcorn was never profitable and was infested with level crossings (even more so than Tenterden to Robertsbridge!). There's a good & frequent "rail replacement" type bus shuttle between Tenterden & Headcorn Station, that achieves the journey far more efficiently than a hertitage line could. Commuter trade is out therefore & as that section has very little to offer the tourist market, it simply stack-up. Encroachment onto the former route increases each year - it's hard enough to extend when you own the land.
     
  16. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,195
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    You are absolutely right that the whole railway must be viable in the long term, with or without the extension. Therefore, rather like the Ffestiniog with the Welsh Highland in the 1990s, sooner or later the KESR must decide whether their stance is to support (or even take over) this project or to seek to kill it off. They can't sit on the fence for much longer given the recent progress and they could never allow a competing operator to run trains into Bodiam, not that RVR has ever intended this but there will be no point in RVR building this railway unless the KESR agrees to run it.
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    384
    At the moment the RVR does not have the necessary safety case, or trained staff to run services, when we run to Junction road it is done under the Kesr rules next year when the shuttles to Northbridge St operate it will be operated by Kesr staff working under our rules and regulations, so in essence we are already operating RVR services, one option is for the Robertsbridge to Northiam section to be DMU with passengers picking up the steam from there to go to Bodiam or Tenterden , but then, what about people who come for a day out with steam who decide to join at Robertsbridge? would they walk away?
     
  18. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,349
    Likes Received:
    770
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wessex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would it not be a bit pointless getting a DMU from Robertsbridge to Northium then going back to Bodium, it would surely be better getting a DMU from Robertsbridge to Bodium then picking up a Steam Service!
     
  19. Fireline

    Fireline Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    277
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Martin, are you sure about that? I rather think that the RVR believe that they will be operating the shuttles, without drawing on KESR resources.
     
  20. martin butler

    martin butler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,440
    Likes Received:
    384
    This came from no less than our company secretary, that any the shuttles will have to be operated under our rules and regulations and because of that and the need to train up RVR members he was under the impression that it would be Kesr staff that would operate the shuttles , also have the RVR got any suitable, coaches , so they would have to borrow not just charwelton, but at least one coach also
     

Share This Page