Rolling Stock Spotters

I would perhaps tolerate the general interest in number taking, but only if they also Financially supported their target railways .............. if they are freeloading, my patience wears thin rather quickly. Good for "Lady" and you demonstrated admirable restraint that early in the morning ........

 

Actually those with an interest in the history of rolling stock that has been preserved are very interested to know such things. Take a look at http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/search.asp or http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/preservedcoaches/ to see the results. Unfortunately in recent years I have found that some of those involved have been less then helpful when asked which chassis has gone under which body and what has become of the body on the donor frame. Surely it is an important part of a carriages history.

 

As a railway enthusiast in general (wagons, coaches, steam diesel), I do take pictures of some pretty rough looking unidentifyable crud around railways and have asked staff for ideas on numbers as I like to know what i've photographed. However, I try and meet them half way and take a list of what's there (easily available off the internet) - so 9 times out of 10 I already know what I'm looking at. There may be the odd occasion I have to ask, such as on the Isle of Wight where there were three PMV's all being dismantled and appeared pretty much the same, so I had three numbers but didn't know which was which. I'm pleased to say a volunteer let me have a look and we found a number plate on the non-public side which was most friendly and pleasing, the Carriage & Wagon donation tin therefore got a slightly heavier payload that day.

I also work on a heritage railway full time, and do appreciate the interest people show in "my" stock (even if it just for numbers) and do my best to accommodate so long as a degree of respect is shown. I have also been known to paint or apply stickers onto the less-loved rolling stock the railway has, which aids identification by number crunchers and therefore stops them bothering people in the first place.

Therefore I feel I have a foot in both camps on this one. Am I sad? Probably, but I enjoy it in any case...

 

I may have mentioned it before. When I worked for a shipping line, we frequently got asked for a list of containers currently in the country.

It takes all sorts but they are not harming anyone so each to their own!

As stated, all shipworthy containers are numbered and plated. The numbers follow the guidelines of the International Container Bureau (BIC) under ISO6346.

The first 3 letters = owner
4th letter = Category Identifier. (U = freight container)
6 numbers = Serial Number
7th number = check digit

I know that this sounds sad but after you are asked several times what is around, you get to know more than you really wanted or intended to.

If you really are interested in knowing more, check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_6346 It's put a lot better than I possibly could as I'd probably fall asleep before finishing zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

 

I quite sympathise shaggy, I think I might accidentally know some diseasel classes unfortunately, through no fault of my own!

 

How do you know if they're "freeloading?"

 

Turning up at 5 am and entering the site by climbing over gates and fences is a good indication!

We are open, generally, between 11.30 am and 5 pm at weekends and bank holidays and charge an admission fee on all entries, yet I'm surprised at how many railways charge no entry fee/ platform ticket and depend entirely on people actually travelling on the trains for their income. A fair proportion of enthusiasts, photographers as well as number spotters, announce on arrival that they don't want to travel, but "can we just look round?" When told that they have to pay for a ticket anyway, they either mumble about the ------ Valley Railway, where they can get in for nothing (to which our usual reaction is "yes, but there's not much to see there anyway") or they walk out and spend some time craning their necks over fences and around corners to see what they can without paying, which is not much!

Then there are those who turn up way outside opening times and expect to wander around at will, again, usually without paying. I blame the many railways which do not charge for entry and thereby allow that attitude to gain hold. It strikes me as odd that those same railways constantly winge about lack of income and problems with theft.

 

In your case I'm sure "freeloader" was an appropriate term.

 

My stance is closer to that of M59137 than that of other posters. I have an interest in the vehicles as artefacts, including design and other details, as well as being a list compiler. With many of the listings being available in published form 'Preserved Locomotives of British Railways' (Platform 5) or on line 'Preserved Coaching Stock' (RCTS) being examples some may view me as the root cause of the problem!

One shelf of my book cases is devoted to heritage railway stock books. The vast majority were published between the late 1960s and early 1990s in an era when home computers were an alien concept. Many are very comprehensive and give the impression of a good knowledge of the vehicles by the railways and the wish for you to take a look yourself. Certainly during the 1980s, when my first visits were made to the vast majority or railways and centres taking a look was not difficult and was usually encouraged. Of course there were a lot less operating days than now but even then it was not usually a problem provided you had a word first. If visiting during winter weekends you were often treated as one of the gang and you usually found yourself asking where the collecting box was rather than being asked for a donation. Then though the majority of volunteers you encountered had interests that had developed from being schoolboy spotters in the 1950s and 1960s and fully appreciated numbers and their collection and if they could not answer a question they knew who could give you chapter and verse.

Its all quite different now. Heritage railway stock books are almost unknown and asking about their availability often meets with bewilderment. One would expect that they would have been replaced by regularly updated listings on the railways websites. There are some, but not a lot, that are up to date and it appears that they are becoming the exception rather than the rule. Whilst a few of the smaller sites are still relaxed about you taking a look the majority of sidings and sheds are now 'no chance' even on non-running days. In fairness though, some will find a volunteer to give you a quick tour provided you are suitably kitted out (hi-viz, safety boots and hat etc). Even then you will probably not achieve a full list due to totally out of bounds areas and locked sheds. Pre-arranged guided tours are sometimes available but these often need much persistence to arrange. Most concerning though is the negativity now often shown towards number takers and those enquiring about certain vehicles by many volunteers and staff. This has been reflected in postings here and I am of the view that many current volunteers never served an apprenticeship on the platform end or as a shed basher. That though is not surprising considering those taking up the hobby in that way in the last quarter century can be counted in penny numbers. It does though probably explain the lack of appreciation.

Whilst bunking heritage railways at 5 AM is clearly not acceptable, better accommodating the needs of number takers needs to be taken on board. The majority will be more than willing to make donations and every penny counts. It might also be that in future years they become a very useful volunteer.

To give a recent example of how persecuted the number takers have become you might be interested in what happened to me at the NRM in April. I had called in after a friends funeral earlier in the day. As I always do I write the position of the rolling stock exhibits on a home drawn pre-prepared plan. Even before I was half way through the main hall I was cornered by what you would now describe as security types who demanded to know what I was doing and why was I had a plan of the museum. Not only are you pestered for a donation before you go in but considered a security risk for writing numbers down! With such persecution number takers will soon be as common as Dodos at heritage railway so problem solved. As a footnote I am actually on the NRM consultative panel on the preservation of locomotives, rolling stock and related matters - perhaps I should be preserved as a rare example.

 

You make some fair points. However, I think the main reason people are less happy for number takers to wander round is the H+S aspect. I've only come across number takers whilst I've been manning the workshops during our galas. The most common questions are asking for the numbers of the carriages in the workshops which is usually easy, and the few vehicles you can see from the open end, which I'm happy to find for them. However, people wanting to go round the full yard at Winchcombe during a gala can jog on I'm afraid. They simply cannot just be left to wander around on their own when a busy timetable is running, it's not practical. Add to that the fact some of our storage vans could be more secure and you see the problem. I can't really abandon the workshops just for one person when there are people milling around the workshops as that's dangerous in itself.

I do also tend to make character judgements; if someone comes up and asks nicely I'm much more likely to be helpful than if they abrasively ask if they can look around the whole yard, or worse still don't ask at all.

If anyone such as Peter who does the surveys ever wants to have a look around Winchcombe yard PM me and I'll see what I can do, either for updating info myself or a look round.

 

I'm in general agreement with you, but I have to say that some number takers do little to help themselves. Apart from those, admittedly few, who object to paying for entry or go into obviously out-of-bounds areas without asking, there are many who seem oddly shy. We have an interesting collection, particularly of goods stock, and are always happy to show it off. Most vehicles are easily visible from within the site, but there are always a number of items in and around the "Works" which are out of bounds. We are happy to take people on a guided tour- if asked. However, it is unusual to actually be asked; I usually have to deduce whether a visitor is interested by observing the tell-tale signs; the chap standing, note-book in hand, craning his neck to try and see into the out-of-bounds area. They only have to ask, yet why are they so frightened? Perhaps it's the fear of having to leave a tip (not necessary, by the way, though always appreciated!) A'hem, I'll be leaving you now, Sir!

 

I will recommend to the Talyllyn that they start charging to visit Rhydyronen station! Seriously, it's not quite as simple as that though is it? Because of limitations of the site, usually the tea room, gift shop etc would be behind the entry gate, so basically you are charging people for the opportunity to spend money in your shops, unless you make the charge refundable against purchases, but that no doubt causes admin problems. Visiting a couple of stately homes recently (one NT, one not), in both cases the tea room /gift shop were effectively outside the gate. Plus arguably, you have a better opportunity of selling them a ticket if they can kick the tyres first. Sorry, somewhat OT.

 

We had some once wanting to know the identification of the permaquip trolleys lol

 

This is a very good example of the attitude rolling stock spotters now face at many heritage railway. As I said in my earlier post, such an interest would have once been fully understood by those involved even if it was not theirs.

Spirax does not make it clearer whether he is referring to powered or manually propelled permaquip trolleys. In both cases it could well have been me asking as again I could be seen as the cause through my involvement with the 'On-Track Plant' books and other listings. Actually, last Saturday I visited a newly established heritage railway which has a couple of powered permaqup trolleys. These were not visible and on asking it was just like the old days. Within in minutes I was being escorted to see them and a very interesting conversation followed.

Although I do not have such an enthusiast interest in the manually propelled permaquip trolleys I do have a professional interest and thus my curiosity sometimes get the better of me when I see one. As Spirax will know these are potentially lethal items which have been involved in a number of serious runaways along with their cousins the rrv trailers. Having been involved in the follow up to a multiple fatality incident involving these that could have very easily been avoided my curiosity is perhaps understandable.

If you are not aware of the enthusiast interest in such things take a look at http://www.ontrackplant.com/

 

Just to ask a question to the die hards on here.
When was the double yellow stripe below the windows introduced on Br maroon suburban coaches.

 

If you mean the yellow/black/yellow lining - 1959, IIRC. There was some discussion about it somewhere (may have been RM Web) about a week ago.
Ray.