Replica 'Lincoln Castle'

In the new 'Steam Railway' mag (382) there is an article about building a new paddle steamer for £3.5 million. I would suggest that the people concerned do a proper costing on this. Compare the cost of the boiler / engine room machinery with the cost of building 'Tornado' (approx £3m), then add on the cost of building the hull ,fiiting out & certification & you'll be lucky to get any change from £10 million.
Surely this money would be better spent on an existing ship at risk.
I'll now sit back & await the flak.

Bob.

 

I agree. The money would be better spent restoring or maintaining an existing ship. If it continues unchecked the current "new-build" craze could put existing locos/ships in danger. Yes Lincoln Castle was lost, but you can't save everything. If BR had given every loco to the preservation movement at the end of steam, we wouldn't have anywhere to put them all!

 

A fair point really but I think the idea just stemmed from the dissapointment in not being able to save Lincoln Castle. Unless the idea is deadly serious and they have major backing and plans already laid out I suspect the idea will soon fizzle out if it has not already done so. I also seem to recall that idea was partly based on the assumption that they could re-use parts of the original steamer such as the engines, which I think would have meant that the project may have been worthy of getting lottery funding, thus closig the funding ga p a little. Unfortunately the engines were damaged during the scrapping of the steamer and I think they too were subsequently scrapped.

As you say the money would possibly be better spent on saving something else at risk and thus giving the group a little more to start with. As an alternative they could pursue one of the other Humber paddle steamers if they were so desperate to get hold of one of them and then return that to operational condition. As far as I know though, the remaining Humber steamers are all safe at the moment though.

Another factor which needs consideration is what the people who donated money towards saving Lincoln Castle now want to do - unless there is some clause somewhere I suspect the money cannot be simply be diverted towards another project and it should be returned to the people who donated.

If however, when all of this is taken into consideration, the team behind the project decide they still want to go ahead I wish them the best of luck.

 

I wish Sr wouldn't report such rubbish! come on that is stupid, there are lots of other ships/boats that need the cash

 

The engines were not "damaged" They were deliberately destroyed by the demolition contractors, Copes, on the instructions of the Johnson Brothers who owned the ship, despite frantic efforts by preservationists to save at least something viable, by waving increasingly large amounts of money under their noses.

The entire ship was chewed into small pieces by a hydraulic nibbler. I do hope the owners and contractors are suitably commended for this every time they are seen in the area

The idea of a replica Lincoln Castle is pure hot air - let alone the eight figure cost of building one; where would it operate? and how would it operate profitably? where would it be berthed? and maintained? and how would a new build get round 21st Century MCA and HSE guidleines with any semblance of originality? It ain't going to happen.

Steam Railway would do better to plaster the names of these two despicable parties who destroyed the original across their masthead so that enthusiasts nationally know who to blame for the wanton destruction of another irreplaceable part of our heritage, and who to strike off any tender or other potential spending lists that may be under contemplation.

As for the funds - pass them to another marine project - Shieldhall, Medway Queen, or the operational paddle steamers Waverley and Kingswear Castle

 

Whether or not this plan goes ahead, it is ridiculous for people to say 'this money could be spent elsewhere' or 'think of what that could do for project X'

This money was raised for Lincoln Castle - those who donated/pledged the money may not be inclined to donate their money to another cause, certain aspects of the Lincoln Castle plan may have captured their imagination. Stop spending other people's money!


Keith

PS: Yes Martin - Wingfield Castle at Hartlepool Maritime Experience Museum, and Tattershall Castle at Embankment in London both survive. As with a lot of engineering they are not exact sisters. Based on their locations/current purposes, I would assume that neither ship would be available for purchase.

 

QUOTE=TBirdFrank;378293]The engines were not "damaged" They were deliberately destroyed by the demolition contractors, Copes, on the instructions of the Johnson Brothers who owned the ship, despite frantic efforts by preservationists to save at least something viable, by waving increasingly large amounts of money under their noses.

The entire ship was chewed into small pieces by a hydraulic nibbler. I do hope the owners and contractors are suitably commended for this every time they are seen in the area

The idea of a replica Lincoln Castle is pure hot air - let alone the eight figure cost of building one; where would it operate? and how would it operate profitably? where would it be berthed? and maintained? and how would a new build get round 21st Century MCA and HSE guidleines with any semblance of originality? It ain't going to happen.

Steam Railway would do better to plaster the names of these two despicable parties who destroyed the original across their masthead so that enthusiasts nationally know who to blame for the wanton destruction of another irreplaceable part of our heritage, and who to strike off any tender or other potential spending lists that may be under contemplation.

As for the funds - pass them to another marine project - Shieldhall, Medway Queen, or the operational paddle steamers Waverley and Kingswear Castle[/QUOTE]

Very well said Frank. I agree 100% with you.

The destruction of Lincoln Castle was a despicable act and for which I hope those involved are constantly reminded of. Certainley they need to be named and shamed. Anyone can see by the pictures no attempt had been made to remove the engines they were simply smashed to pieces.

Stan

 

Why not use the money for a museum display somewhere where the owners are named and shamed very visably & publicly, the NRM could be a good place to ask as Lincoln Castle was of course an LNER vessel.

 

Because that's not what people donated 'the money' for.
I doubt that the NRM (or any museum) would want to be involved in a display merely to slag someone off, no matter what they had done.


Keith

 

Its a shame that the Railway Press don't do more to promote the other 'railway steamers' that survive . . . I sent an email to the Editor of Steam Railway about a year ago on this subject but got no response. It seems the Lincoln Castle seems to have captured their attention though . . .

How many tmes have you seen other ships mentioned in the railway press despite them being a big part of railway heritage . . .

 

In response to the 'name and shame' comments; sadly, the 'named and shamed' would likely commence legal proceedings for libel against any party participating in such an act.

 

Only if the statement is false and damaging to their reputation.

 

John, sir, you beat me to it!

If the remarks are true, then it is not libel (just bad publicity!)
Copes were the contractors, if I remember correctly.

 

As others have said on this thread the costs of restoring these ships is huge its one thing to save one but to get up and running is a whole different ballgame just look at the number of ex BR Diesels around that have yet to run in preservation not to mention some steam as well.

 

And its another thing to wreck a perfectly good and virtually operational triple expansion engine which Lincoln Castle had until Copes wreckers got its claws into it.

Its hard to beleive this is 2010 and not 1960.

The whole thing was a disgrace and heads should roll.

Stan

 

I believe that the biggest practical problem with recovering the engine intact was the lack of a crane of suitable lifting capacity 'on site' , and large cranes are expensive to hire, of course.

I can compare it with the removal of the old Doxford marine engine (ah, happy memories ) from the workshops at South Tyneside College - at one point this too was looking at the gas-axe, but was eventually saved - only, I suspect, because someone eventually realised the adverse publicity that would ensue, should it be scrapped.

 

Ship preservation is a whole different ballgame to railway preservation and anyone who thinks in terms of "Railway" or "Well, we did it with TORNADO" needs to get a hefty dose of reality - and quickly!

Both WAVERLEY and KINGSWEAR CASTLE are fully operable paddlers, with MEDWAY QUEEN likely to come on line before too long. Those three ships, along with BALMORAL will all have to compete for a finite number of people in order to meet their VERY hefty operating costs.

On the "preservation" side, WAVERLEY is nothing like the ship she originally was when preserved, and MEDWAY QUEEN will also differ considerably, due to the requirments of SOLAS 90 and other safety at sea legislation. Marine legislation is extremely onerous [And, of course, needs to be] and expensive for operating ship owbers, which pushes costs up to levels beyond that which railway preservation is used to.

Whilst LINCOLN CASTLE was a "nice ship" to look at, it really had "had its day"; equally, whilst I might not like the way in which the ship was disposed of, I honestly feel it was the best thing for it because, as the paddle steamer "RYDE" has proved, ships are horrendously expensive playthings which need far more income than any steam loco ever did and their preservation records are littered with many failures over the years, all due to that menace, operating costs.

Rest in Peace, LINCOLN CASTLE, you're better off out of it!!

Ian

 

Good post, Ian. Some very salient points made.

Mark

 

As regards Lincoln Castles engines they may have come out a bit easier had they actually been unbolted.

As Frank says the orders were to destroy them and thats what happened, the rest is b------s.

How can anyone say the best thing for Lincoln Castle was to smash it to bits? Dismantling and salvage of reusable parts yes but whole scale destruction NO.

Stan