If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Wenlock

    Wenlock Member Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    827
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Loughton Essex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe one of the problems is that there are several differing sets of instructions and regulations.

    There are the ORR rules which apply to all passenger railways. There are probably guidelines from the HRA. I think there is another set of regulations which the government have applied to all outdoor attractions. And those lines which are accredited museums will have to comply with rules for museums too.

    The management of each line have to decide which sets of rules apply to them, and how they can comply with each without compromising one of the other rules.
     
  2. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13,191
    Likes Received:
    10,266
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm not sure what is "compulsory" and what the choice of the individual railway - I see very different offerings for the SVR and NYMR, for example. However, when good practice (hell, it's even theoretically in place for pubs) is to record details of who has visited in case track and trace is required, and a level of social distancing is still government policy, the common thread I'm seeing is of different organisations trying to support the overarching government policy within their particular constraints as an offering that is both attractive to customers and viable for the railway.

    What I do notice though is that all visitor attractions seem to be operating on a pre-booked basis, and using that to channel demand and avoid queues and bottlenecks.
     
    2392 likes this.
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,370
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I think it's not so much a case as guidance anywhere saying your have to pre-book, compartments only etc., but more that that is the only feasible way of going about meeting the guidelines that are in place regarding hygiene. Or in other words, for "normal" operations, the amount of effort in cleaning and other things required is simply impossible to achieve.
     
  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,001
    Likes Received:
    2,379
    I’d agree that pre booking is important for the above but also as a effective way of controlling numbers. In more general tourism the majority of attractions are now pre book only. You have to control numbers, one local tourist attraction doesn’t have pre booking for a specific date but capacity is reduced to 30%. With no way of knowing how many of the people they have sold tickets to are coming on any particular day, it must be the only time they are praying it isn’t to busy, something dated tickets avoid by removing that uncertainty. Given that and ignoring any specific guidance, it’s hard to see any other sensible way to do it IMO.
     
    35B, Wenlock and flying scotsman123 like this.
  5. AMP

    AMP New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    97
    I have a feeling there is another reason for prebooking other than just crowd control.

    I was looking at the website for Chawton House (somewhere else to head after my trip on the MHR on Saturday) and they make a reference to a requirement from the government to keep details of exactly who has been on their site for 21 days post visit. Track and Trace....?

    Andrew
     
    Wenlock and flying scotsman123 like this.
  6. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13,191
    Likes Received:
    10,266
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That requirement can be met in other ways - at church yesterday, I just gave my name and contact details to the sides man.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Track and trace is certainly a consideration. There is no "play book" for heritage railways as such.

    The main consideration for most has been how to help people feel safe within what is possible with a largely voluntary workforce. Not stopping at intermediate stations is a logical way of reducing cleaning and also keeping flows of visitors controlled. Hopefully relaxation of restrictions will become possible with experience. Bear in mind no one has done this before.



    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
    Hampshire Unit and Paulthehitch like this.
  8. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    696
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I did see reference to a railway saying that the ORR had laid out some requirements but didn't specify whether these were Covid related. Even if there isn't anything specific there is always the threat of HSE involvement if things go wrong, so ensuring that social distancing can be maintained is very important. As such railways need to work out how to achieve this, and we're clearly seeing some common themes developing, albeit with some elements of variation from place to place.

    Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18,636
    Likes Received:
    31,751
    Location:
    21C102
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wouldn’t GDPR be a consideration there? In other words, if use of the data for track and trace was a consideration for collecting names of visitors, that would have to be made clear at the point of booking. I’m not sure an attraction could pass it on otherwise.

    Tom
     
    26D_M likes this.
  10. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,426
    Likes Received:
    3,269
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Given that schools in England and Scotland are working towards reopening in the new September term, with a petition for a similar time scale in Wales, those railways leaving their plans until mid August are sailing rather close to the wind I believe. That does not give much time for finances to be sufficient to tide them over the closed winter period. Whether Christmastide trains will run will become 'wait and see'. and that will depend on what kind of celebrations are offered. The spanner in the works - for all lines, whenever they have opened, or not, could be a rise in infections and causing further localised lockdowns. That would be a sad event as any further lockdowns, most likely, would not be due to carelessness or lapses on heritage lines but carelessness and lapses elsewhere.
     
  11. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    As it is a legal requirement to collect the information I think that GDPR doesnt apply. From memory there is an exemption if the data being collected is required by law.

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
    26D_M and Wenlock like this.
  12. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    The ORR provided a checklist of things to consider before reopening. It was not specifically COVID but about making sure for example that bridges were inspected and track walks carried out and boiler tickets renewed etc etc etc

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18,636
    Likes Received:
    31,751
    Location:
    21C102
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was intrigued and looked it up on the ICO website - as far as I can see, although there may be a requirement to collect data for contact tracing, you should still inform your customers that that is one of the reasons data are being collected.

    https://ico.org.uk/global/data-prot...omer-and-visitor-details-for-contact-tracing/ - see middle paragraph in particular.

    What do we need to tell people when we collect their data for the contact tracing scheme?
    You must be clear, open and honest with people about why you are collecting their data, who you will be sharing it with and how long you will keep it. You must not collect and process personal data in a way that is misleading, detrimental or outside of what people would reasonably expect. In this case, the collection of customer data is for a contact tracing scheme (such as NHS Test and Trace in England), so you need to make this clear to people.

    Collecting customer contact details may already be standard practice for your organisation, but the purpose of collecting this particular information is wider than managing bookings or similar tasks, and there are greater implications should an outbreak occur. You need to explain this to people.​

    You must consider appropriate methods of communicating this message (including children and young people). For example, you could provide information over the phone, you could put signs up on site, direct people to further information online, or simply tell them when they arrive.​

    In other words, if you have an existing online booking process that collects data to process the booking, but you are now additionally storing the data for contact tracing purposes, you need to make that additional usage clear. (It seems that given the speed of introduction, if you can't update your website software in time, making it clear on entry to the attraction would be sufficient - but IANAL).

    Tom
     
  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    15,613
    Likes Received:
    13,450
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You can see that lines are doing just that. Whilst there are things that are planned that are common across railways like the pre-booking of trips and no 'pay on the day' options, there also seem to be 'railway specific' local decisions such as East Grinstead remaining closed on The Bluebell because of the narrow platform and concerns over proximity management.

    When you see variation then surely this is a good sign that it is being thought through locally and that each railway is doing what it feels comfortable with. That strikes me as responsible behaviour.
     
  15. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,785
    Likes Received:
    2,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Enfield
    The North Norfolk Railway ready for reopening on the 8th July:):
    712D510A-B3ED-48E1-905F-E0B7BB899054.jpeg
     
  16. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,371
    Likes Received:
    2,243
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    I can just clearly envisage the reactions of the assembled photographic gallery as this rolls towards them ;)
     
  17. bleeder4

    bleeder4 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    267
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Worcester
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I do think that this requirement to collect contact details is a data protection nightmare. Many of these organisations (small local pubs etc) aren't used to handling personal data. They won't have a Data Controller, they won't have a Privacy Policy in place. Where do they store this information? Who has access to it? They might just keep it all in their notepad on their front desk. All it will take is an enterprising thief to break in one night and nick the notepad and he'll be able to have a good go at stealing those people's identities.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13,191
    Likes Received:
    10,266
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Then they need to think seriously about how they handle that data. They’d take care of cash; personal data is no different.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    26D_M likes this.
  19. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    98
    Location:
    Llanharan, S Wales
    I've got to be honest, from what I've seen of various railways plans to re-open, they don't look like an attractive day out for me and my family. From the cost to the requirement to wear masks, to the pre-booking and subsequent inflexibility and the fact that you're stuck in your seat for the whole journey, it doesn't strike me as a pleasant way to spend my time or money unfortunately. I will continue to support railways with donations etc but I'm not sure I'll be travelling on them that often. I understand the requirement on railways to behave like this but it has taken most of the fun out of it for me unfortunately.
     
    Woolley, jnc, Greenway and 3 others like this.
  20. toplight

    toplight Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    864
    Location:
    Swindon, England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I agree, I feel the same way. It is all too expensive and restrictive. I want to:-

    1 Be able to get on and off trains at each station as I want, you might see a particular loco or train and fancy a ride on that one. You can't
    2 Look around anything of interest at each station: You can't
    3 Not wear a face
    4 Ideally buy a ticket on the day, although buying one the previous day is ok
    5 Choose to travel on whichever train service best suits: You can't

    So all in all, I will wait until there is more normal running before visiting. The only ones that look attractive are the more museum type sites like the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre etc, where you just buy a ticket online and then turn up.
     

Share This Page