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Rampton Trust - SOTILLOS

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Dag Bonnedal, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    Stumbled across a paper in the Austrian technical magazine Die Locomotive 1912 about the 0-6-2T loco Borsig 6022/1906, Hulleras de Sabero No. 7, now in the Rampton Trust collection:
    http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?aid=lok&datum=1912&page=140
    and the following page.
    From the data and text it appears as this loco is truly remarkable. It is built as early as 1906 and has a high degree superheat! This is very early and probably one of the absolutely first superheat locos on 2 ft gauge.
    With a 7 ton axle load it is of about the same size as the 2-6-2T locos of VoR, but thanks to the superheat, larger boiler, much higher boiler pressure and smaller wheels it probably has substantially higher output power at the speeds used at the VoR.
    It is stated in the text that it was the most powerful 600 mm gauge loco in the world at the time it was built and a figure of 200-250 hp is given.
    Another odd feature is that I am not aware of any other engine on the same line as powerful as this one, must have been "a white elephant" sort of.
    Could we only dream of seeing it in action?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  2. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Ooh! .... what a very interesting loco! If it were judged useful for VoR operations, fingers crossed PRT might consider it for a return to steam.
     
  3. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Is this bigger than your two superheated locomotives?

    Paul H
     
  4. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    Shure, alot.
    Our two superheated 2-6-2T locos, Nos. 4 and 9, built by Motala, Sweden in 1914 and 15 are only 16.7 tons (even smaller than Russel) and rather low degree superheat.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Östra_Södermanlands_Järnväg

    Previously I thought that our No. 4 could be the first superheated 600 mm loco in Europe, but this proves me wrong by 8 years.
     
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  5. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we'll ever see it out and about anywhere
     
  6. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Was it built with superheat or was that a later modification?
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Sod's Law is more reliably invoked with definitive, rather than conditional statements - except when it isn't! :)
     
  8. bantamd14

    bantamd14 New Member

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    I know it may be a bit of a grey area between the PRT and the VoR at times, but have any PRT locos been steamed in preservation?
     
  9. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    No...absolutely not...and they never, under any conceivable circumstances ever will be. [See post #7 above]
     
  10. robgolding96

    robgolding96 New Member

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    I have heard, or read, that the Avonside Heisler and the Hudswell Clarke 'Santa Ana' might have been steamed in preservation in the 70's.
    Again, this is just talk, and I have never seen any evidence to prove this.
     
  11. William Fletcher

    William Fletcher New Member

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    How do you know this?
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Might I refer you to posts #5 & #7.....!! :)
     
  13. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Which tell me absolutely nothing. Have you anything to back this claim up or is this just another uninformed NP speculation?

    Peter James
     
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  14. Selsig

    Selsig Member

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    No. It's sarcasm. @30854 made the point that in order to invoke Sod's Law (anything that can go wrong, will) you have to make a definitive statement. Ergo, by stating that no Rampton Trust loco has ever steamed, nor ever will he is attempting to make the opposite be true. Joke duly ruined.

    In a slightly more factual time, I think Wren KS3114 and Hunslet Margaret are, or were, both Rampton Trust, and are both currently in steam.

    John
     
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  15. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    (Sigh) ....... whatever .......
    We have the Aberystwyth museum facility to look forward to. Although not privy to any inside information, this appears a rather exciting project. For what seemed ages, the VoR and related websites were rather uninspiring, but, happy to note, that all seems to have changed over the past couple of years.

    The folks at Aberystwyth demonstrate a highly practical approach and look to be doing everything possible to anchor their operations firmly into both community and economy. I've little doubt, based on all evidence thusfar, that the museum will conform to type.

    Like many, I'd love to see some active web presence from the PRT, but with no knowledge of whether their size and structure has capacity to undertake such a commitment, I refrain from criticism and merely hope that, once the museum is up and running, the Trust is better placed to consider it's online presence and what part, if any, the wider heritage could usefully play in best securing their collection for future generations.

    I'll close my post with this consideration. Were I custodian (i.e. responsible for my lifetime) of a substantial collection of artefacts, many of which I knew to be in too delicate a state of preservation to be dragged around or clambered over, and some frothing know-it-all came to me demanding access, my response would be, let's say, somewhat more robust than the ever gentlemanly Mr Rampton's. Nor would I feel any compulsion to pander to demands (for that is what much of the vitriol amounts to) by people with no responsibility for, or financial interst in my affairs. Such have no divine right to blow by blow insight into plans. When any organisation releases information in such a way, it's a bonus. it certainly isn't an obligation. The Charity Commission are evidently satisfied with relevant statuatory information provided by the Trust, yet I see sporadic attacks which seem to suggest Charity Commission collusion in some cover up. What utter piffle! Let's not forget that had PRT not intervened, in many cases there would be no artefact surviving over which to speculate. Things will never move fast enough for some, but progress evidently is being made on many fronts.
     
  16. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks for this last informative post - I now have some idea of what we are talking about and where you are coming from. This seems to be a topic that is maybe well known by some on here but it is something that I knew nothing about. All is now explained.

    Peter James
     
  17. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    There are several threads on here regarding Collection X / PRT / Brecon / VoR - they're worth a read if you have a few hours!


    Keith
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    If I seemed unnecessarily terse in my earlier post, perhaps some context might explain why.

    After so long, it's only too easy to assume that the ongoing debate concerning artefacts held (or rumoured to be held) by the PRT must surely be known to all. So much scurrilous claptrap has been vented concerning the matter, usually of the "my mate heard it down the pub" variety and more often than not, without the first shred of hard evidence, that it often renders any attempt at meaningful debate totally pointless.

    Sorry if you've innocently landed in the minefield Peter!
     
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  19. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    Also don't forget that the Aberystwyth works is now more commercial minded and has taken on a number of railway related contracts, it is one thing to own locos but it is another thing to pump money in to getting them restored.

    I would suggest off the top of my head that to restore her to working order Borsig 6022/1906, Hulleras de Sabero No. 7, might cost anywhere from £350 -400,000 pounds upwards. Also to just restore a steam loco to museum display condition can cost just as much, so it is no wonder they are not on display.

    10 years ago the L&BR spent over £100,000 to restore AXE to working order, she is now due to have her first 10 year overhaul, so just how much this will cost I don't know, but I bet it won't be less than £50,000, not that anything needs to be replaced except the boiler tubes and brake shoes etc (stuff that wears out).

    I might as well mention the elephant in the room as well (that being Mountaineer), even the FR aren't willing to give a ball park figure on how much it will cost to restore to working order until they start to strip her down.

    If you look around the narrow gauge world, you can find any number of locos awaiting their turn in the restoration Que so waiting for any of Pete Rampton locos to be restored and to also turn a wheel in anger well you could be waiting a very long time.

    If you have the determination to go for it, you might even see the whole fleet of the old WHR rebuild and working before another loco from collection X makes it to Aberystwyth for a rebuild ( me cynic? never):Morewaitingisrequired:
     
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  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    £350-£400K sure is a helluva lot to spend on getting a loco to go nowhere! I'd think long and hard about any condition report as well!

    Regarding "Mountaineer", I'm uncertain there's any concensus on what happens next before considering costs. IIRC there were comments about the state of the bar frames. If so, considering the original intended lifespan of the loco was comfortably exceeded during just it's active life on the Ffesterbahn, it will be interesting to see what happens next. I'm pretty sure the loco was supplied to the FR on condition that it wouldn't be disposed of (in any way) without the donor's specific permission. Although many find it's looks brutal, I've always had a soft spot for it's unpretentious rugged appearance.
     
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