If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Railway Touring Company

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by neildimmer, Dec 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
    With respect the above doesn't really indicate take anything away from the argument that RTC operate an "unusual" business model. 6 tours significantly changed out of 64 planned may not seem a lot but it's 6 too many. Just think what impact this might have had on those who booked and who else they may have told. We just cannot afford this complacent attitude. It's like saying, "yes we did crash a train and killed everybody on board but it was only one out of a hundred trains we ran." The percentage may be small but people always remember the bad more than the good, and this is why I believe the whole industry needs to up its game if it's to continue being seen by the Public as a credible leisure activity, and worthy of investing in.
     
  2. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
    It can soften the blow you're right but this is still putting the onus on the consumer to protect him / herself from the "unreasonable actions" of the seller which isn't acceptable. We all accept I'm sure that in exceptional circumstances people may find themselves out of pocket in situations similar to this, and where reasonable we take it on the chin by and large. Where planning, organisation and poor communication consistently lead to the same outcome however, I believe the story to be somewhat different.
     
  3. Northern Union

    Northern Union New Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Intersting sub plot to this on the North Wales Coast Express where a loco marketed for the tour (46233) actually is not allowed on the full route. It could have rescued part of the tour today when 60009 failed. It was not allowed to do even part of it - but more importantly it could not do the whole tour as advertised anyway.
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,445
    Likes Received:
    9,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I will add this here as well, the locos advertised for the NWCE, the Flyer and CME, are from the 'pool', so no loco is ever specified. If the loco rostered fails at a late stage, it is irrelevent whether the others in the pool can cover the job or not since they would not be in steam anyway.
     
  5. Northern Union

    Northern Union New Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    But every loco advertised in the pool has to be able to actually do the job. That is totally relevant otherwise it is mis-selling in the wider sense.
     
  6. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
    So what you're saying then Ralph is that the other locos in the pool are not "standby" locos in the old fashioned SLOA sense of the word ?
     
  7. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
    Spot on NU.

    Ralph, you're missing the point. RTC in their infinite wisdom have seen fit to advertise an itinerary and match that itinerary against a pool of locomotives right ?

    We have seen today that one of the locomotives in that pool is in fact not fit (gauged) for the advertised itinerary so NU's point is that RTC are advertising something they cannot deliver ?

    Does that make sense or do I need to try again ?
     
  8. the-gog

    the-gog Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Mid-Wales
    And now 46115 has reportedly failed at Carlisle on the Fellsman. Diesel forward.
     
  9. alts1985

    alts1985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    590
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Store Manager for the Co-operative Group
    Location:
    Stevenage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Sorry when I said south I should of said Sussex/Kent, regarding the rail tours out of Lewes/Three Bridges!
     
  10. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,614
    Likes Received:
    21
    Occupation:
    Occasional
    Location:
    G C & N S
    This is a prime example of where an exclusion clause taken to the ultimate test would be found to be wanting.

    The Goods and Services Act provides that a vendor must exercise a reasonable level of care and skill in the product sold. Arranging a pool of locos that aren't even allowed over the route could not really be described as either careful or skilful no matter how you approach the question.

    Test Failed - Refund time! Simples!
     
  12. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    See I thought that if you got to Redhill you should be able to go down the rest of the line. The platform clearances should be the same as all those to Redhill and after Redhill there are 4 tunnels to Brighton (5 if you go via Hove), Balcombe, Haywards Heath, Clayton and Patcham (and via on the line to Hove Cliftonville Tunnel) and 2 viaducts at Balcombe and just outside Wivelsfield station.

    Not quite sure if its the viaducts or the tunnels that could cause a problem or even some of the platforms given the regularity of engineering works on the line north and south of Keymer Junction. An A4 without valances can do it but it must be close if one with valances can't make it down. Its a shame that we can't get 46115, 45699 (or 5690) or 46233 down this way though. I hope that WCRC can use 34046 as she must be able to get down there as the early 2000's we had 34016 visit a few times.

    I agree that as long as steam runs down here its fine, just wish there was abit more variety to 34067 and 44932 thats why I'm hoping we'll see 34046 get a few trips down here next year (providing we get any more Royal Wessex/Bath and Bristols from RTC and any Cathedrals from SD although we do have the potential for more down here when the Bluebell's extension is finally completed).
     
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,445
    Likes Received:
    9,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There's no need for sarcasm...I have understood what you have said in that tone on this and previous occassions.
    I am just trying to see it from the other point of view.
     
  14. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,968
    Likes Received:
    2,476
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southampton, UK
    Post removed.
     
  15. Northern Union

    Northern Union New Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    There can't be another point of view that legally speaking is valid. I understand that you work with RTC and others and would wish to defend - that is your right. Neither is that sentence a criticism of you. However objectivity will always win out over subjectivity. You cannot advertise something that does not work - end of. TBird Frank is spot on.
     
  16. alts1985

    alts1985 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    590
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Store Manager for the Co-operative Group
    Location:
    Stevenage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There seems to be two conversations going on here but to finish the gauge conversation off it will be great when the Bluebell extension opens, should open up lots of tours from London that then do a tour of Sussex to get back or tours from further away that go straight there. However I think the gauge limits are even tighter on the East Grinstead branch, the class 66 diesels for the waste trains needed special measures I believe to run and the Uckfield tour that ran a few years ago was out of gauge for East Grinstead.
     
  17. eco082007

    eco082007 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Group Compensation and Benefits Advisor, Bath
    Location:
    Bath
    Well on this issue its not a point of view Ralph, its a point of fact. The definition of a pool of locomotives, as described by Frank has not been met. End of !

    RTC are showing themselves increasingly wanting in the basics department. That does not inspire confidence at any level. It's only this week we read for example that they have advertised 60007 running back to York from Kings X on "The Tynesider" when 60007s own website states they are only present for the up journey. I guess this will be explained away as a "clerical error" ?
     
  18. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    All these arm chair lawyers giving legal definitions seem to have one thing in common that prevents any action being taken...

    Lack of A ticket for todays train.

    One wonders the rationale behind such loving legal advice continually being dished out for free.
    We don't even have facts behind why it's diesel hauled today, infact the train hasnt even arrived back yet. We don't even know what's been arranged for the passengers...
    But hey why not get the knife in hard and deep eh boys...
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,445
    Likes Received:
    9,143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I would like to point out once again I do not now work with RTC and have not done so since last year.
     
  20. 45407&44871

    45407&44871 Guest

    I believe the fact is, is that 46233 was put down in the pool of locomotives before Network rail and said about the Gauging issues.
    RYTC have been known in the past not to update there site that frequently, which though annoying, is just going to continue happening.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page