Question re SWT's 3417

Interesting! Good luck, im very intrigued by how this could be achievable.

Chris

 

Right:
The bad news out of the way first. 3417 isn't going onto the mainline. Sorry folks; I was fed some slightly duff gen, which I repeated on here in good faith. To one and all, my sincere apologies.

I have, however, been contacted today by the owner of Eastleigh Works who was kind enough to point out the minor flaw in my "400-series back to the mainline" scoop. The problem was the number of the unit.

It won't be 3417 - it will be 1881.

Below is an edited summary of the email he was kind enough to send me. Read and inwardly digest, folks - because it's cracking news for anyone interested in preserving Southern traction.

"I’ve just looked over the units at Shoebury and 1881 has blown me away by being in really good nick. It doesn’t even smell damp and was clearly in good order before being retired. The interior is better than I could have possibly hoped for with virtually new cushions. This unit won’t take very much to get back up and running at all. It even had traces of air still in it from a move 2 weeks ago.

The VEP TS and MBS from 423536 are less good but fully complete. They have the usual upholstery rot under the windows and the red cushions are faded and dirty but the fact that there is an MBS left out of the unit and not a DT as I had been led to believe is another good result. Nothing appears to have been removed.

The 2 DTS from 1884 are not too bad with a bit of water ingress but nothing major. Apart from the speedo they are also complete AFAIK
All these 8 vehicles will be straightforward to move out by rail.

Poor old 1304 is less good. It’s had its brake chests, MBS doors and dash panels removed and is also pretty damp throughout. It’ll have to move by road and is realistically only useful for spares. Having said that, it’ll yield enough bits to keep 1881 on the line for years to come.

So 1881 it is. I’ll buy all of 12 of the Shoebury vehicles and either strip the others for spares."

So, chaps - 1881 is to be restored to mainline running. With an ED pilot, but once again we will be able to savour the howling of EE507s and the clunks of EP tread brakes on the mainline.

 

Truly excellent news! I thought all mainline hope had been lost with the scrapping of Southern's "preserved" CIG, but clearly not! Not sure about the financial viability of a 4-coach railtour set though...will it hold enough people to break even?

 

Is it Mr Knights? :smt002

It is good news that classic 3rd rail traction will still be kept alive on the main line and we should hopefully still get a decent result at East Grinstead. I am sure that 3417 will be well looked after in its future role.

Regards,

Dan

 

I feel sure that the local scrotes will make sure it will be made welcome in their own way. ](*,)

Regards
Chris

 

Just not in her true form! ](*,)

 

So 1881 (is that a 3 or 4 car CIG?) will be restored to running order (albeit hauled), so what becomes of 3417, presumably nothing has changed on that count?

 

Chris,
1881 is a 4-car CIG - and an ex-SWT unit.

As far as I am aware, the plan concerning 3417 and East Grinstead is going ahead. And if anyone tells me any different I'm not going to believe a word of it unless I am also presented with a covering letter of authenticity signed by God, countersigned by The Pope and delivered by Elvis.

I still won't believe it, of course, but at least I can sell the letter on eBay.

 

I think there are already one or two like that on there...

 

Believe me you will not get Elvis.

Regards
Chris

 

Believe me neither 3417 not 1881 will work on the main line until the current DfT/NR regime changes. Just too many obstacles.

Don

 

That depends on how much money there is available, how much expertise on hand to argue the case for Mk1 mainline stock and in what form the formation runs. Topped & tailed ED's would be the first logical step. Beyond that, with proper communication between the rolling stock owners and the certification body there is no reason why the stock could not run unaided. The biggest problem with letting them un unaided is what happens if they fail: it's unlikely, but it can happen. I would expect to see either a Crompton or ED in the final rake at all times as a belt-and-braces measure.

Knights will be more than aware of the restrictions governing passengers being conveyed in leading vehicles, OTMR and of course the perrenial bug-bear of Central Door Locking. But there are ways around all of those problems.
OTMR can be fitted: if an ED can be fitted, then so can a slammer.
CDL is also feasible: Hastings Diesel have proved the concept, and the design for the CDL used on the Lymington Branch is also available. In fact I recall a CEP carrying fully working CDL, using the exsisting train control wires (23, 24 & 25 wires if I remember correctly) in the mid eighties.

And I believe I am right in saying that the BR restriction on passengers being carried in leading vehicles only applied above 100mph?

In any case, Don, forgive me when I say that I have very little time for the "oh, it'll never happen" brigade - railway preservation has proved them wrong time and time again.

 

Hi Keelar

Very interesting, however the front/rear coach ban applies to all Mk1 stock, with derogations for north of Glasgow/Edinburgh, Lymington branch, and the Hastings diesel set (although only for the driving vehicles with an engine as it constitutes a crumple zone - driving trailers are banned) For this reason, an unaided Mk1 set would not be possible on the mainline. The 100mph ban is a different issue - the only exceptions (pendolino/voyager/meridian/adelante) are due to large integral crumple zones behind the cab.

Chris

 

Better find a MLV or GLV then, or stick to top and tail 73s.

 

Then, in the immortal words of Roy Castle, "Derrogation's what you need...."

(Sorry Roy)

 

Ah, but ive always understood to get a derogation its usually neccesary to make some kind of concession to safety, ie a crumple zone (Hasting Diesel), less chance of collision (scotland/whitby). Im not sure how this can be done with a CIG on 3rd rail mainlines, any ideas people?

Chris

 

Top and tail with either a non-passenger vehicle (GLV, MLV) or locomotives (preferable EDs).

 

Lucky there are still some Cakey Vans (M/GLV's) around then! An MLV and a CIG sounds like a good idea to me \/

 

I think we're all looking at this from the viewpoint of, well, making money. Until recently I was, but then it's been pointed out to me that this isn't about earning extra revenue for the owners.

12 cars are being bought, with the express intention of returning them to the mainline. This isn't about creating a new charter rake: it's purely and simply about preserving and running a rake of Southern slamdoor units in working condition.

These units are going to be an advert for the capabilities of Eastliegh Works, albeit a rolling advert with seats and pickup shoes: filling the units with punters to pay the bills isn't the object. The bills are being paid for by other means - even with 6 out of 8 coaches filled, the PR power of such a unique project will pay dividends.

And who else will want to be involved? Well, I daresay the former owners of the rolling stock will want their name mentioned in the positive publicity this generates, as will anyone associated with providing train crew and so on - the "make friends and influence people" angle is going to be a huge advantage. Let's face it, enthusiasts will be delighted to see the units back out and earning a few sheckles, and the possibilities offered for their use in training, coporate hire, filming contracts, special workings.... The list of possibilities is endless.

But first and foremost they are being backed by a multi-million pound business: they don't have to make money!

 

And now, for anyone still doubting it, the press release is on my site!!!

http://wimbledonparkdepot.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!BDD9587C6E3493EA!3127.entry