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Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    Unless the council has significantly watered down the lease conditions from the previous lease, then there may well be an obligation to allow a third-arty operator access to run through services should SR decide not to once the two-year trial is over. Such a condition was certainly in a previous lease (and referred to by councillors - so certainly reasonably well-known). Whilst SR would be able to internally manage the fare abstraction if it is in control of both the N-S, S-CC and Wareham flows, there would be a real risk that a third-party operator would maximise their fares - which could be at significant expense to SR's own revenue. It may of course be that the obligation to undertake the two trial periods was in place of this obligation - but I can't imagine a local authority lawyer letting such an influential clause go lightly!
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Surely on the modern railway it is more if the DfT in its role as a Treasury puppet would fund it.
     
  3. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    DfT is not a party to the lease. If the obligation remains of the character that SR must endeavour to provide a service between Swanage and Wareham or, if it is not able to, then to let any other operator who is willing to do so provide such a service, then the door would be open to any TOC (not just the franchised operators, who are DfT funded) to provide such as service. The danger for SR in this would be a charter operator offering to do so in the peak season only - in a similar manner to the S&C summer only services of recent summers. (Of course, the reality is that such an operator is unlikely to do that unless it will make money - and if it will make money then SR will presumably wish to provide the service and take the reward). Of course, SR may have managed to negotiate themselves out of this condition - which was in a lease that was originally drawn up when any form of Wareham service was a distinctly distant possibility, and getting beyond Harmans Cross was the challenge!
     
  4. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If it's not viable for the SR itself to run a regular service to/from Wareham then it's very unlikely to be viable for any other organisation to do so. An occasional service at busy times may be viable, and if so might keep everyone happy.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I tend to agree, but the debate about a prospective operator would itself be a major distraction.


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  6. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    Ah, but for an existing operator there are only incremental costs to cover. I once procured a grounds’ maintenance contract for a school, grass cutting of the school field, etc. The smaller operations were coming in around £500 a month. The county council grounds’ dept. came in with £150. I was direct with their contract manager, “how can you do it so cheaply?”
    He said: I have a crew coming past here, fully equipped, every week. All they need to do is stop off for 60 minutes and there is slack to do that. Then he wrote a number down. “This is what it will actually cost us per month, extra diesel.” The number? £13.
     
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  7. John2

    John2 Member

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    A third party operator operator may not have to accept Premier Life or priv. tickets making the operation far more viable.
     
  8. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    What third party operator? All pure speculation!
     
  9. 80104

    80104 Member

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    The provision of any form of public transport service (without subsidy) is usually a "good thing" from a local govt point of view however I think it is fair to say that few believe a Wareham service could be operated without some form of subsidy. The question which the trial seeks to answer is how much demand is there, what would the revenues be, what would the costs be and therefore what level of subsidy is likely to be required going forward. Of course we could have an outcome where SR decide that they can continue to run the service in subsequent years (without subsidy) and that of course effectively negates the DC involvement.

    However if a subsidy is required and DC decide that they wish the Wareham service to continue after the trial period then there are a number of possibilities: SRC operate a service with subsidy (possibly) a third party TOC operates a service without subsidy (unlikely) third party TOC operates a service with subsidy (possibly). There is also the outcome that No service is operated by anyone because the subsidy required is greater than DC and or central govt will fund.

    There would be nothing to stop DC asking for Expressions of Interest in operating a service and providing potential bidders with comprehensive information to enable bids to be submitted. There seems to be a view that third party TOCS would not be interested because of the "financials" and "operating challenges". However no one knows how much money DC and Central Govt could be prepared to put into such a project and that to me is the most important factor. It is not the viability, it is the level of subsidy DC et al are prepared to invest.

    SRT and SRC are now entering a crucial phase. They have to deliver the trial year service thereby fulfilling their legal commitment and in producing the results take a view on the future. Excepting the unlikely possibility that SRT SRC would wish to continue the Wareham service, the ball will then be put into DCs court.
     
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  10. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    BUT

    Who operates diesel services through Wareham these days?
     
  11. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thunderbird on the back of a steam charter ....
     
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  12. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    As with any sort of poll (which is what the trial service effectively is) it is important to ask the right question in the first place! If DC want evidence of a commuter market some trains have to be run at the relevant times, services run within the SR's normal hours will not be suitable.

    Is it known what the terms of reference are for the trial services? Or is there just a vague commitment to run a "trial service"?
     
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  13. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    The initial train to be preceded by a snow plow to knock down some of those molehills!
     
  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Those mole hills being the things that, if it's done wrong, will kill the railway itself.
     
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  15. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    Positivity will win out,usually always does!
     
  16. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    ..just think,every gricer and railwayac from St Ives to Thurso can hop on a train,make the BIG connection(!) and enjoy the delights of Purbeck all the way down to Swanage. A first in a lifetime opportunity for many and that is how it should be advertised. Talk up the trials! Get the railway press on board(literally!). Ninety days that shook the movement!
     
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    And when everyone’s done that once, what then? Not much use “proving” something’s brilliant if you use up all the interest.

    I was delighted to go through to Sheffield Park when the Bluebell extension opened to East Grinstead. But I’ve not looked at a through train since.


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  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    0BE0F881-680F-4262-9A5C-5AEE7F9CE1FF.jpeg Could be a while before any railwayac gets a train from St Ives to Purbeck… Just sayin…
     
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  19. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Pure fairy dust will blow away those pesky molehills….
     
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  20. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Will that fairy dust special be hauled by double headed unicorns? ;)
     
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