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Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not sure that is actually desirable. For people with cars, especially families with full cars, Norden already makes a convenient place to join the railway for a trip to Swanage, avoiding most of the traffic jams. So surely the objective of going to Wareham is to encourage new visitors without significantly changing the numbers of the existing ones?. If instead you simply move the starting point of existing visitors from Norden to Wareham, you might find you have increased the cost of operation without a concomitant increase in income.

    So to be effective, Wareham needs to be about encouraging people to travel who might not otherwise have done so, rather than just changing the journey pattern of those who would have come anyway.

    Tom
     
  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Absolutely so. To justify itself, this project has got to be about what @Captain Fantastic splendidly calls "normals" (i.e. not gricers). It has got two years to get established. Wish it good fortune

    PH
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2017
  3. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Really?
     
  4. Steve1015

    Steve1015 Member

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    Yes James........ The Rt.Hon.Mr Dave Gravell advised so yesterday........ if he is wrong then fine no problems but if you know any better then just say so rather than just posting a snarky comment.
     
  5. seawright

    seawright New Member

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    Far from advocating that all visitors should leave their cars at home I am suggesting that it would be far more convenient for those joining at Wareham to travel there by train.

    I don't know what the availability or price of parking is in Wareham town centre but for those visitors who wouldn't go anywhere without their car Swanage Railway may have missed an opportunity by not providing return tickets from Norden (park and ride) to Wareham.

    Swanage Railway appears to be unique amongst heritage railways in providing two significantly different services on the same line. I am concerned that each service will be judged in isolation and that after the two year trial the Wareham service will be deemed unprofitable in that it will cost more to provide than it takes in ticket sales, rather than to compare the railways annual profit with and without this service. A subsidised service may benefit the railway and the local economy in general which just leaves the question who will provide the subsidy should it be required.
     
  6. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Not right or wrong; Steve1015.
    Just that the plan for Wareham loco usage for the next period will be made tomorrow, based on contractural and engineering requirements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  7. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    There are fares for Corfe Castle/Norden quoted on the Swanage Railway website (scroll down to fares - http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/wareham-timetableandfares) - so it looks as if the market from Norden to Wareham is catered for (even if the mile walk into town at Wareham may make it not a huge market.

    It is a personal opinion - but one that was certainly in the initial business case - that the financial success of the project was on not abstracting P&R revenue from Norden, but adding extra markets that would cover the marginal cost of extending the then existing diesel services to Wareham (which act to increase the frequency without the same huge cost as putting on a second steam set for much of the 'mid-peak' season. The equation to judge on this basis would be: AR must equal or exceed (MC+AC) where:
    AR=Additional revenue for Wareham tickets (taking into account any abstraction from existing services)
    MC=Additional costs of mileage to Wareham
    AC=Access rights cost for mainline
    Given that much stock and motive power involved would be maintained at or very near to mainline standard anyway, and that once under SR control the costs of the Safety Case will be little greater than those that would be required for the existing operation the level of additional revenue required to cover revenue costs is not huge, and the initial capital costs have largely been covered by grants already. Obviously, there will be a need to provide for future capital expenditure, but it seems as if SR is committed to much of this anyway in maintaining its connection for the transfer of stock etc.

    Finally, an indication (albeit not fully quantitative) of the latent market was indicated by the level of enquiries from people asking about ways to get from Wareham to Norden in order to access the existing service - and the high rate of people who failed to book when told of the reality of the public bus service!

    Having not been able to make it for the first day, I look forward to sampling the service when I visit Swanage in the summer - and will be glad that I will be able to leave the car at home and not have to drive five hours each way for the visit!
     
    seawright likes this.
  8. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Swanage - Wareham loco plan for this week; agreed between SR & WCR is for the 2 x 33s until Friday, then 37518 will replace 33012. Simply to even our usage between the 3 locos, that are supposed to do approximately the same number of days during this year's service.
     
  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    If there was a pull- pull fitted mainline approoved 33/1 would it be possible to operate on the N/R in push pull mode ? i'm of course assuming the 4 tc retains its 27 way jumper equipment . or is it no longer an accepted practice on NR to propel passenger vehicles
     
  10. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    I believe the 4TC has operated in push pull mode at Swanage diesel galas in the past, so I assume it retains the necessary equipment.

    However the driving cabs aren't fitted with with ATP, OTMR etc. Therefore it can only be used as hauled stock on the mainline.

    Gatwick Express stock was propelled until relatively recently. I'd assume it's still allowed in theory.
     
  11. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    Thanks. 2 x 33 for my trip this week then, just what I was hoping for.
     
  12. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    East Coast electric trains; class 91s, Mk4s & DVT
    Liverpool St - Norwich: class 90s, Mk3s & DVTs
    Plus regular propelling shunting of sleeper passenger trains at Carstairs and Edinburgh

    Have I missed anything?
     
  13. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    Class 68s on the Chiltern line, Class 37s on the Cumbrian Coast. Think that's probably it. Other mainline loco services are I think top-and-tailed.
     
  14. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Coming soon - Class 68s and Mark 5s on TPE.

    Steven
     
  15. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    For those interested (or have not watched the webcams) 37518 leading out of Swanage today. This is the first day it has done this, I am guessing it made the shunt moves easier this morning after the extra fireworks trains last night that D6515 was involved on. Looks like 33025 may have failed on the first train yesterday as well, was replaced by D6515 on the 12:26 departure and is now in the "naughty boy corner" along with Manston. I am sure those residents who have complained about the noise of the 33's will be "pleased" with the noise of the 37 instead.
     
  16. desperado

    desperado Member

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    33025 might have failed but what's more likely is that the batteries of the TC were getting low and needed recharging by the ETH from 33012. With CDL on the TC, the batteries can't be allowed to go flat. I got caught by this exact same problem on my only visit to the Swanage-Wareham shuttles so far.
     
  17. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    "Naughty Boy corner for Manston"!
    Are you out of your mind???? Thousands of pounds worth of damage and loss of a reliable loco that should have run for another year before boiler overhaul but you make it sound like it's the loco's fault.
     
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    No I was not implying it was the loco fault at all, what I was trying to imply is it the area where the locos that have problems are. If I upset you or you feel I was being disrespectful I apologise. I am a fan or unrebuilt Bulleid's and as a Swanage resident had hoped that it may have got to run, maybe at the next gala double headed with 257 Squadron. Or maybe before the end of the summer timetable where they worked the two train service. That we will not see now as I suspect with such a short time left on its ticket it will likely join the overhaul queue.
     
  19. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    What do they expect if they buy a house next to a railway line?!

    Ok the line might have been closed for years, but it was always known it was going to be re opened.
     
  20. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    desperado you were correct, West Coast guys tell me it was the batteries as you suggested. 33025 back in use today with 37518.
     

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