If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Photo Charters and Photography on Heritage Railways

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by I. Cooper, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. 2392

    2392 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    854
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Must admit that when I publish on the various forums I'm a member. I always give a shout out as to what where and when I've took the photo. Thus giving publicity to the railway. We have a forum of sorts at work, which understandably mainly used for work purposed, but has an informal forum similar to this, covering a variety of none work related subject.
     
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    32,112
    Likes Received:
    16,090
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Speaking as both a loco owner and an erstwhile charter organiser, I can say that over the years photo charters have made a positive contribution to the financial well being of 34081. Charters involving 34081 gained her extra steamings and charters involving other locos generated small but welcome profits. At times I wondered why I was doing it with early starts and the sheer physical effort involved at times but I looked upon it as my contribution to the volunteer effort for 34081. We fostered good relations with the railways we visited and in conjunction with fellow organisers, made things happen that normally wouldn’t have done. Getting the L&Y Pug to the Bristol Harbour Railway being a good example. Each railway has its own view regarding charters and charges varied from “as long as we cover our costs” to the “ouch!” It will be a shame if the SVR turns its back on these events permanently and I hope that minds change in the future.
     
    jnc, Train Watcher, Macko and 3 others like this.
  3. Nick C

    Nick C Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2018
    Messages:
    729
    Likes Received:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It's the same in other fields as well - There's a very well known example in motorsport which resulted in two photographers being killed by a rally car, while standing in a prohibited area...
     
    jnc likes this.
  4. Dead Sheep

    Dead Sheep New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2021
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Heritage railways are private operations on private property. Their is no right of access for photographers to access that property nor is the any legal obligation to operate charters. Any access is granted by the operation on a permissive basis only. If a heritage railway such as the SVR decide to no longer cater for lineside photographers or charters, that is entirely the prerogative and nobody has lost any right. If anyone feels hard done by, then tough luck.
     
    jnc likes this.
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,585
    Likes Received:
    15,282
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I don't think anyone's suggesting it's a *right*, and most people agree that the time of lineside passes has passed. But it seems unnecessarily draconian to throw out charters too, when they paid their way (albeit without massive profits) and the risks seem like they can be managed, in the opinions of those who've run charters.
     
    MikeParkin65, Oakfield53 and jnc like this.
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,887
    Likes Received:
    5,834
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    There was a time when people could wander around Bridgnorth MPD.

    You pretty much described my visit to the Great Gathering in York. It actually made what was a nice day out a bit less enjoyable. Ironically I commented to the person that I was with that I couldn't understand why if their photos were so important why they didn't pay to go on a photo charter rather than trying to take the perfect shot when there are lots of people around.
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,262
    Likes Received:
    4,987
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    What was paid was generally commensurate with Footplate Experience days earning , in some cases more .
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  8. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    163
    Location:
    Dantes 7th polygon of hell (60B)
    Theres this new theory called mitigation. Which is why cars have seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, driving tests, etc. Chunks of H&S is informed by insurance who of course would do anything to avoid paying out. Call up any railways insurance company and ramble at them.
     
  9. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,982
    Likes Received:
    10,568
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It’s nothing to do with insurance or the ORR who have stayed they don’t want to stop charters. Most to do with a new and regrettable attitude by some railways
     
    JBTEvans likes this.
  10. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    2,212
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southampton, UK
    Are we still flogging this dead horse?!

    Let's go back to liveries, that was more fun...

    James
     
  11. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    163
    Location:
    Dantes 7th polygon of hell (60B)
    My point wasn't about the SVR not doing charters, it was about safety as a whole. Insurance is going to take a dim view if a volunteer falls off a ladder or chops their arm off with a chainsaw. And it isn't going to look good if a visitor falls into a pit or trips over a signal wire and bashes their head in. The South Devon nearly turned a child into a soup like homogenate and did they take absolute pelters for that. The best intentions from people can still end in tragedy. Theres a tale here of a photographer on the SVR falling off one of the viaducts and he wasn't exactly a newbie.
     
  12. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,982
    Likes Received:
    10,568
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Deleted
     
    flying scotsman123 and 60017 like this.
  13. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Salop
    Indeed, which is why charter organisers together with host railways carry out risk assessments to identify potential risks and put in place measures to ensure activities can take place in a safe manner - charter participants aren't free to just do what the hell they like, and neither are employees and volunteers.
     
  14. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,670
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    One thing that has not been mentioned is secondary spend ( a favourite phrase of @Bean-counter ) . On the Bluebell the majority of the charters start from Sheffield Park so the safety briefing is held in the Bessemer Arms which has opended early for breakfasts and will also for be open for lunch.The Great Western Echo recorded the monies taken in the cafe at Didcot in addition to those from the charter fees for 3nr consectutive Saturday Afternoon/evenings and Sunday morning with 6023.
    On some railways there is limited or no opppourtunity for secondary spend from charter participants.
     
    Macko, JBTEvans and Monkey Magic like this.
  15. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,661
    Likes Received:
    378
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Newport (South Wales)
    That secondary spend may be unseen. They may use the chance to visit the railway on the nearest operating day if travelling from a distance to said railway.
     
    Paul42 likes this.
  16. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,670
    Likes Received:
    1,225
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    I can think of two occassions both on the Severn Valley. I visted on a Sunday prior to two days on charters 34053 and 30120, and also theNovember gala with the Manors followed by a charter with a Manor the following day.
     
    JBTEvans likes this.
  17. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2014
    Messages:
    10,982
    Likes Received:
    10,568
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired, best job I've ever had
    Location:
    Buckinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Does anyone know if the GWS have a view about the steaming fees lost from what could almost certainly have been a week of charters?
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    10,371
    Likes Received:
    6,010
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Never you mind
    Location:
    31A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Whatever the GWS view is, I much doubt it being made public here.
     
    35B, jnc, Johnb and 3 others like this.
  19. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,262
    Likes Received:
    4,987
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    The GWS will have agreed a number of steaming fees within the hire agreement so I suspect they are more than happy . The loco has gathered much attention , the sun shone and all is well with the world . The magazines will be full of images from the running days and on this occasion pretty much everyone has hopefully got an image of the saint in sun on the GWR stock.
     
    Spitfire likes this.
  20. I. Cooper

    I. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Salop
    ....and most if not all of the published photos show just how many good photographic locations there are along the SVR from adjoining property and rights of way without needing lineside passes :)
     

Share This Page