Past Time Rail

Should have re-invented themselves as Bank of Past Time Rail. They would have thrown 50 billion at them then !!
Not good news for these businesses and probably not good for confindence in the railtour industry in general. At least some tour companies provide a lot of the services required themselves ;- there are possibly less middle men and the cash flows more directly to maintaining the heritage assets?

 

What does this mean?
Cheers
Alan

 

It means: You don't visit the other side?

 

Hmm, that sounds pretty bad. I'm surprised PTR managed to keep it under wraps, for these are vast amounts of money, and no-one saw this coming. I suppose it pays not to over-extend your cash-cows (The Torbays and Cotton Mills), as you may not get the returns you were expecting. I had noticed that there were seemingly endless dates for both services this year, which would have eaten into any profit (I also think there was an over-reliance on publicity from the BBC 'Coast' programme, as this was almost three years ago, and would be lost on most people now). This inevitably has a knock-on effect in the one-off market, creating something that is unsustainable. I hope the other tour operators take heed...

 

Aaaagh, Grasshopper, you are not ready!

 

Does anyone know who the liquidators are and their contact details yet? Or how to find out this information?

Thanks

Keith Miller

 

Name & Registered Office:
PAST-TIME RAIL LTD
TORRINGTON HOUSE
47 HOLYWELL HILL
ST ALBANS
HERTFORDSHIRE
AL1 1HD
Company No. 03102668


Companies House doesn't seem to say they are in liquidation yet. If there is an 'L' next to the company you can usually find the liquidation practitioner.

Dave

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

 

Details of the Liquidator:
Mr Kevin Goldfarb
Griffins
Licensed Insolvency Practioners
Tavistock House
Tavistock Square
LONDON
WC1H 9LG
http://www.griffins.net/

Details of the new operating company:
Mr B Cordell
Director
Torbay Express Ltd
116 Ladbroke Grove
LONDON
W10 5NE
The liquidator insists that any vouchers, including those specifically for the Torbay Express will not be honoured as the agreement between Past Times and the new operator was to honour tickets only, not vouchers.

 

Thanks for posting that info.
I contacted the liqiudators myself today. They have my details already and will be writitng in the next day or so. So on that basis all "ticketed" creditors should be hearing from them very shortly.
I think it is posted elsewhere but TBE ltd and Pathfinder 2006 and Riviera trains are all registered at the same address with companies house

 

With the debt level reported I would suggest that hope levels be kept very realistic - very!

 

Very good comments made by Sidmouth (Martin) earlier in this conversation-Who would want to be a tour operator.All the risks & practically none of the reward....Well said,Martin.

Many years ago I knew someone running a similar practice dealing with the general public-and I wonder how many here on this forum has attempted to run a business on the same lines.Not many I bet.

The whole thing is fraught with difficulties.Up front you put on a brave face,like everything in the garden is rosy.Underneath,you are going down the swanee.In fact,you are heading for a nervous breakdown.

The complications you meet is nobody's business,everyone has their hand out,and if dealing with the public,how fickle they can be is renowned.

So anyone remaining running these rail tours need a medal.They are brave people to continue & to supply a service.

 

The whole thing is fraught with difficulties.Up front you put on a brave face,like everything in the garden is rosy.Underneath,you are going down the swanee.In fact,you are heading for a nervous breakdown.

So anyone remaining running these rail tours need a medal.They are brave people to continue & to supply a service.[/quote]

Sorry my previous reply was to TBirdfrank, I should have quoted.

Regarding the difficulties of running a railtour , I am sure they are many and that it is a difficlut juggling act. But these people choose to do this and whether they are enthusiasts or not they see a market that can be exploited and where money can be made. But they are not the only players.
Why own and operate a mainline steam loco when you are under the cosh of increased operating costs and restrictions:-coal, maintenance, "must have air brakes", "must have TPWS", "must have OMTR", out of gauge this way or that , "its painted the wrong colour" gee thanks!!. Why run a heritage engineering business or any engineering/manufacturing business for that matter with spiralling energy costs, stiff competition from abroad, restrictive beuaracracy and legislation from europe and the nanny state. Why run a pub with prohibitive taxes, next to impossible competition from supermarkets, tied beer purchases.
There are lots of people who deserve a medal out there and are struggling to run a business or , equally (the majority of us) , working for a struggling business. They have had no pay rises, working hours cut or worse of all , made redundant. And they don't expect to see their hard earned disappear into a black hole.
I don't disagree that running a railtour business must be very difficult and trying.But those that choose to do it ned to be squeaky clean with customers and their money so that confidence is maintained in the industry, especially in difficult times. Dedicated enthsusiasts might shrug their shoulders and take this on the chin "for the good of the cause". But the fringe enthusuasts and family day outers that keep the repeat itineraries going may be less tolerant, lose confidence and spend their money elsewhere in the future. I try to spread the word in work to colleagues regarding the pleasures fo a day out with steam, especially those with families. But many lose interest when they find out the cost. It's a lot of money for a lot of people, especially if their interest is "curious" or "fringe".

 

Totally  agree  with aperture/Martin!! PTR has given me so much pleasure over the years--watching/riding/stewarding.I got very depressed at what I saw as negative comments re promoters on this forum  + I stopped putting up "hot tips" as my sympathies have always been with loco owners/tour promoters/Network Rail(!!)/caterers etc trying to placate passengers who felt they had been "cheated" by late changes of route/diesel drag etc.Outside Germany/Swiss the steam railtour scene is massively reducing in Europe + many wonder if the UK will also "crisis."  PTR may have huge liabilities(this will eventually emerge) so that loco owners/carriage providers/caterers/other tour operaters for which they were ticketing agents may now face extra challenges.  Perhaps forum members will "tone down" criticism + moderators act quickly to moderate views that could make mainline steam even more fraught.I am partisan.Very. As a (former) tour manager on many overseas trips for RTC I have begun to appreciate how true aperture is!! All too quickly its "sue/complain/whinge" esp from hard core enthusiasts. It was interesting that on a non "hard core"trip to Sardinia that I led recently how nice everyone was + I was thanked verbally/given phots/thankyou letters/ pressie.   So--how about more thankyous(cards/pics/letters/phots) to tour operaters incl Andy. My last memory of Andy was Swanage-Waterloo on the way to Sardinia chatting affably with 2 other leading tour operaters.  My guess is that none will "get rich" from steam despite 60-80hr weeksThis forum is read by tour promoters+they can+do feel v bruised by comments.Explanations sometimes cause more problems+its frequently not wise to respond(ie the alledged speeding of 46115+facile/irresponsible comments made in various quarters) .Causes can be vv complex. Lets start afresh.Be pleased at past achievements by PTR+others/feel sorry for the losers(voucher holders/suppliers of locos+facilities) / and say THANKYOU to promoters of steam tours whether in the UK or abroa

THANKS PTR--ANDY --STEWARDS--JO + BEST OF LUCK. You gave us a lot of pleaure+the end was v sad THANKYOU!!!

 

Well said,Ray.

It's hell sometimes,I've experienced this myself ,dealing with the public.What do they say,every 100 letters you send out,1 or 2 bite the bullet.I think this is about right in business circles.

Ok,I know if everyone responded the train would be full within minutes,but wouldn't that be nice for the operators.Even I would ask for a managers job if life was sweet like that.It isn't.
But look what happens to a pop concerts,down in Somerset or Hyde Park,etc,teenager book within minutes,it's a sell-out.Teens have money to spend & burn.They would sell their soul for a glipse of Joe Smerks strumming a guitar.Rain or shine.

Families for steam trips don't,and it's left to the keen enthusiast to put bums on seats.The faithful few also need a medal for continuing the support.Others have a million & one excuses,got to take the dog to the vet that weekend,going shopping with the wife,going abroad,mistress is leaving me that week,cars out of action,kids ill,mother-in-law coming around,and so it goes on.

The teen doesn't have this problem,they go,hell or high water.Whatever the cost.Promoters are quids in.
God bless,em!

 

I will do my very best to continue to support mainline steam and tour organisers through these testing times. I guess now its all really down to us. Of course tickets for steam trips also always make ideal Birthday presents etc. We must give our support to those out there who make it all happen.

It makes me think how many locos that are currently in ticket for the big railway will have insuffecient funds for the next overhaul?

StM

 

It means those who are not members of "the works"

 

As a regular PTR csutomer over several years, I always enjoyed their tours (some steam, mostly D1015) and the stewards were top-rate. I admit that a couple of them are long-time friends from when the Westerns ruled the rails, but they all seemed to really enjoy their trips and I hope the pax responded. Its very sad that PTR have come to this sticky end, but perhaps not too surprising given the current economic woes of the whole country. Having said that, the last tour I did with them (34067 to Swanage, 2/5/09) appeared to be a sellout. But running a successful business requires continuous revenue. If you are a railtour operator/promoter, It only requires one or two tours to be cancelled (involving refunds, loss of deposits, lots of (unproductive) office time, etc) and your business model quickly goes down the pan along with a measure of goodwill. This can often be caused by issues totally beyond the control of the tour operator. I recall several 'green steam train' MHR tours being cancelled for reasons like that, before the MHR gave them up completely as a bad job. I agree with previoius comments that we should be thankful that railtours run at all, not griping about them!