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P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    True enough, although really the majority of those are just folks making use of GWR's standardization policy, as well as the fact there's SO MANY of their locomotives kicking about. Arguable perhaps too many since a good number of them have yet to be restored as yet. So I see no problem there, though do hold some reservation to the Hawksworth County project using a 8F boiler when really it's not the correct specification for the class. Although I can respect the observation that seeing as it'll most likely be just a heritage railway only engine, it wouldn't need the extra power it's losing.

    Besides that I can only think of the Brighton Atlantic that's using existing components, being mainly the boiler, but much like most of the GWR new builds, the ex GNR Atlantic boiler is pretty much identical to the ones used on their Brighton counterparts.
     
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  2. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    There's also the 2MT 84030 project (using 78059 as a "donor loco") and arguably, the retro-rebuild of 35011.
     
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  3. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Ah yes thought I was missing one, the BR 2MT project.

    As for 35011, that one is hard to pin down in any specific category I find. For on one hand it's a restoration of a preexisting loco, which will retain it's identity and number, yet doing so by retroactively rebuilding it back to it's original form and configuration. And that in itself would involve building a large sum of parts from scratch, so would make it a new build technically also!

    So in short a bit of everything with the 35011 project!
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Interesting that Hornby are doing an original 35011 in their Dublo range for this year ;)
     
  5. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Oh yes saw that, as well as a all new tooling for the P2s too! All variants of them class by the looks of it, even the soon enough to be completed Prince of Wales. Quite on the ball with their choices for models of late Hornby, gotta say~. ;)
     
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  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Makes a change I guess. Used to be that people scoured the Hornby catalogue to decide what to new build; and now Hornby scour the new builds to decide what to put in their catalogue ...

    Tom
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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  8. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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  9. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    From what I've seen, the re-building of existing locomotives as something that they never were is, despite the alleged standardisation,


    fraught with problems and compromise, I was still at school when Maindy Hall was removed from Barry, I am now heading for My first pension.

    With respect to the Brighton Atlantic, the GNR boiler came from an industrial installation in Essex, and may never had actually been used on a locomotive, My old boiler inspector used to speak of bit, although He wasn't sure of it's origins, the important point, as I see it is that The Bluebell Railway didn't start this project by buying an existing GNR atlantic and dismantling for the sake of it's boiler. If We take things back to basics, in the 1970's the 'Iron Duke' project started with the dismantling of an Austerity. History cannot be changed, but by making claims it can be distorted or hidden behind.


    Regarding the 8f boiler on the 'County', not only will it be down on power, but also economy, the performance will be entirely different to that of a Hawksworth 'County' so even the 'Experience' will not be authentic. I am prepared to say that restoring 'Yet Another' Hall class would have been a more satisfying project.
     
  10. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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    Getting back to the P2, I think that towards the end of the year we'll see some very significant visual progress, seeing that the pony truck, boiler, cylinder block and motion components will all be in progress. Exciting times!

    Richard.
     
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  11. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    In many respects You have either answered or at least confirmed the presence of 'Compromise', after all, if the re-building of 'Maindy Hall' as a 'Saint' was deemed to difficult, that in itself suggests compromise, as a restorer Myself I do appreciate problems that can and do arise. The very fact that 'Lady of Legend' has had new cylinders suggests that the Hall class cylinders were not suitable, 'Standardisation'? the original article that I read in Model Engineer suggested that with Swindons policy it would be little more than larger wheels that were required. I understand that the Hall class bogie is of the DeGlehnn pattern, but Saints were not, so re-using the Hall bogie is a compromise. It would appear to Me that little more than the Horn Blocks and boiler have been used in Lady of Legend, the manufacture of which, whilst not commonplace are certainly not unknown in rerstoration and true New Building. Of course the much vaunted 8F/County boiler is another compromise.
     
  12. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    It's important to take the timeframe into account in an such comment. Now, yes, building a new boiler from scratch is entirely feasible (albeit fairly expensive); at the start of the vintage movement, anything beyond fairly cursory patching was fairly infeasible. So in retrospective analysis of decisions, noting the time-frame is very significant.

    Noel
     
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  13. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    The GWS chose to change the cylinders (to inside steampipe type) so that the Saint could be shown in 'original' condition. If they had done a Court with curved front and cab framing and in final condition with outside steampipes the Hall cylinders could have been re-used.
    More importantly the frames are actually the ones from 4942 which were only slightly modified for 2999 .. at Riley's IIRC.
    Ray.
     
  14. clinker

    clinker New Member

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    All that You are achieving is a confirmation of My views, The GWS chose to make new inside steampipe cylinders in order to build to 'Original' condition, so if this was the intention WHY start with a Hall? or why not 'Build' a 'Court'? and whilst I appreciate that 'Boilermaking' was a fairly crude craft back when Maindy was purchased, the whole idea was put on ice until 'fairly recently', so why not start with a clean sheet, as in Tornado and Prince of Wales, and let some-one of a mind restore Maindy? Regarding the frames being 'slightly modified' again why not start again with new clean steel with a guarantee on it?
     
  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Are we really doing this again? :Banghead:

    This is the P2 thread, not the Saint thread. I'm sure if you look you'll find it's been done to death there.
     
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  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I think the allegation of "compromise" deserves further discussion, so let's move over there for it.
    Edit: typo corrected.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  17. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    I have requested that all non-P2 stuff be re-located.
     
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  18. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Member

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  19. Eightpot

    Eightpot Well-Known Member Friend

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    I see from the article in the January issue of 'The Railway Magazine' that besides two turbo-generators that an alternator (presumably a large one) is being fitted under the tender driven by a pulley with provision for at least six 'V-belts'. I assume that this will be feeding batteries to be located somewhere via a regulator. What do they need all this electric power for?
     
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Presumably to power the big motor hidden in the boiler cladding to make it go - I believe @martin1656 came up with the design. ;)
     
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