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P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by class8mikado, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

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    Do you think they’ve priced in applicable tariffs in the event of ‘no deal’? Genuine question, not trying to start a brexit argument. Closest information I can find in WTO data suggests a 15% tariff on bits of steam engine which might make the A1 folk’s eyes water a bit…

    Simon
     
  2. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Surely tariffs would only be enforceable on PO's placed after the fact?
     
  3. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Normally tariffs are applied from the date of import, when the goods actually arrive in the country.
     
  4. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    ...and contracts usually specify that the price is exclusive of taxes, tariffs, etc.
     
  5. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

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    I might be wrong here, but I’m pretty sure they’re charged when the goods enter a country, not the point the order is placed. On a far smaller scale, but relevant, if you order something online from outside the EU, you don’t pay customs charges on order, and you don’t pay the supplier, you pay the tax authority directly.

    It would be somewhat ironic (if I’ve got that wrong) if Mark Allatt has had to bring forward purchasing plans in order to avoid hefty import tariffs, in light of his political stance.

    Simon
     
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  6. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    Indeed. Incoterms is a subject unto itself but sometimes the DDP Delivered Duty Paid terms are used. It will depend on what was agreed.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Would that be the actual inward shipping date (i.e. landed on these shores) ...... or the few days/weeks/months later, when HMRC's Collector of Taxes eventually decides, in their infinite wisdom, to clear the shipment?

    (A tad jaundiced .... ?? :Meh:)
     
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  8. osprey

    osprey Member

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    Payable after clearance...obviously
     
  9. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Does charitable status have any effect on tariffs etc?
     
  10. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

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    Wouldn’t think so.

    Simon
     
  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    It has been used in previous years (e.g. Band Aid) to refund VAT to the charities hence creating a precedent that could be repeated.
     
  12. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    You think that HMRC are bad... You should try in Southern Italy
     
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  13. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

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    What has VAT got to do with WTO tariffs? I also wish you luck in arguing equivalence between famine aid and the boiler of a steam engine.

    Simon
     
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  14. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Where the charity was extremely politically high-profile, and levying a tariff left the government looking like it was trying to profit from famine relief. As @goldfish says, there is no meaningful equivalence between the two situations. And the politics - which are for another thread - will put many other interests suffering from the effect of changes to the terms of trade (not just tariffs) far ahead of the A1SLT in the political stake, even allowing for Mark Allatt's connections and undoubted PR skills.
     
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  15. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    In a similar "genuine" spirit, will there necessarily be tariffs if 'no deal' happens? I've not heard a lot of details on what will happen in that eventuality; I know the EU has done some contingency planning (but I'm not sure if details have been released), but I'm not sure if HMG has too. My guess is that as things currently stand, legally, the EU would then be classed with the rest of the world, and tariffs applied, but there might be some last minute move to avoid the paperwork nightmare that would cause.

    Noel
     
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  16. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    This discussion really belongs elsewhere, but the brief answer is that HMG have to decide what tariffs to levy on imports from outside the UK. They can set them at any level they like, subject to WTO caps. However, whatever rate is set must apply to all countries, and does not have to be reciprocated by those other countries. The only exception to this would be countries with whom the UK has trade agreements registered with the WTO. By definition, this excludes the EU in the event of a "no deal".
     
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  17. 61648

    61648 Member

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    Customs Duties and Import VAT are payable at the moment the Customs entry is submitted to CHIEF, the HMRC Customs clearance system. This would normally happen on the day of import into the UK.
    At present, goods originating from within the EU are deemed to be in Free Circulation so no Duty or Import VAT is payable on arrival.
    What will happen post-Brexit is another matter, there are many suggestions however, assuming that Duty and Import VAT are payable, railway locomotives and parts are covered under Chapter 86 of the current UK Customs Tariff and attract Duty at 1.7%.
    Unfortunately however, in the notes to this chapter there is an exclusion for items specifically mentioned in Chapter 84 (this is the general machinery chapter), this includes heading 8402 covering Steam Boilers which attract a Duty rate of 2.7%.
    In either case VAT at 20.0% is payable but this can be reclaimed via normal Quarterly VAT returns.
    As the A1SLT is a charity, there may be an exemption available however I didn't have time to check that at work today.
    What many people don't realise though is that VAT is payable on Customs Duties, the only example I know of a Tax on a Tax.
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    Isn't that the same with petrol/diesel? VAT is also paid on the fuel duty.
     
  19. 61648

    61648 Member

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    Yes I think you're right, I stand corrected as I hadn't thought of that, taking it further Excise Duty on alcohol and tobacco would fall into the same category.
    The Lord giveth and the Government taketh away.....
     
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  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness for lifes little certainties, Death , Taxes, Leaks in flat roofs, Racist/sexist comment about the alleged promiscious nature of young females from a western area of mainland Britain...
     
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