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Overseas boiler inspections

Discussion in 'Locomotive M.I.C.' started by stepney60, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    What is the ruling on this?

    If an engine from (e.g.) Europe comes over here having been restored and ticketed in continental Europe, could it run here on it's continental ticket or would it need proper appraisal by a British inspector?

    Similarly with the other way round?
     
  2. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr New Member

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    Interesting point. If the boiler is adequately and appropriately insured to the satisfaction of the host railway, would it matter where it is insured?
     
  3. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    Thats a much better way of phrasing it... 8-[
     
  4. i am led to belive that british standards are higher than the continent so i would think some form of formal asesment would be needed to comply as american boiler plate is thiner and has been described by alan mcewan as paper thin

    alan mcewan is a boilermaker from over the hill from me at cowlinghttp://www.mcbo.co.uk
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    Erm... I'm lost on this one! What you're saying is than (say) ½" thick plate is thinner in America? and Alan McEwan says so, too? Or do you really mean that, in the US they use a thinner plate for the same duty? There are good arguments for using relatively thin plate in fireboxes if you are welding in the stays and don't need to rely on thickness for screw thread security.
     
  6. odc

    odc New Member

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    The South African engines that have come to GB were all found to need further work to pass the UK insurers, though 138 didn't need much.

    To outway snide remarks about US practice, they may have thinner standard plate but they ulta sound ever square inch of their boilers at pre-determined time intervals before the boiler is allowed to steam. This was a new rule bbrought in about 5 years ago and has cost several operators dearly, but a least makes sure everything is still up to the job. Some engines have NEVER had their boilers off before this came in.
     
  7. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr New Member

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    It's very rare for locomotives to be brought from abroad to the UK and to be immediately put into steam. One regular, though not frequent example is the Bluebell Railway welcoming Bello from their Dutch 'twin' railway. Surely that can't be expected to obtain a UK boiler ticket for its visits.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    The relevant requirements are contained in the Pressure Systems Regulations 2000. At the end of the day the law requires that there is a 'Written Scheme' of maintenance for any boiler put to use in the UK. It requires that Written Scheme to be approved by a 'Competent Person' and requires that the maintenance regime of the Written Scheme is carried out. It also requires that examinations are carried out by the Competent Person at the intervals required by the Written Scheme. It defines who and what a Competent Person is. It is usually a Body Corporate, but doesn't have to be. There is no requirement for the Competent Person to be UK based. Provided that there is an approved Written Scheme in place and it has been examined by a Competent Person, whether it was done in the UK or wherever then this is sufficient. Generally the Law requires the 'User' to select the Competent Person who must be someone capable of carrying out the required duties but, if the boiler is subject to a lease/hire agreement this may be the Owner. If you don't know the Competent Person the sensible thing to do is involve a Competent Person of your choice, which is usually your Boiler Inspector (more correctly, his employing company). The ACOP for the Regulations considers that steam locomotives (including model steam engines) are the responsibility of the User and not the Owner. however, if a loco is hired for a short period the provision of a Written Scheme and examinations by Competent Persons will generally be with the Owner and the User will discharge his duties by satisfying himself that the paperwork is all in order.

    With any locomotive put to use on a railway, whether it has come from elsewhere in the UK or abroad, what usually happens is that the User's Competent Person will examine existing paperwork. If he is satisfied with this, he will generally 'take it onto his books' with probably an 'in steam' exam. If he is not satisfied with the paperwork, he will carry out his own thorough examination.

    The above briefly covers the requirements of the Pressure Systems Regulations 2000. There is also the question of Insurance, which opens up a whole different situation.Your insurance company will only accept paperwork from an organisation it recognises and trusts. You may be complying with the Pressure Systems Regulations but if your insurance co. won't accept the paperwork, it isn't worth anything. And you need to have suitable insurance in place to comply with the law.
     
  9. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Well-Known Member

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    I have been through this both ways but only for 7 1/4" locos. I have no idea if the requirements are the same for 'full size'

    For locos coming out of the UK with a certified boiler and current insurance there were no issues, the Italian insurance company requested only a certified translation of the documents. This has to be done by a legally registered translator. This was a farce as the person selected had no engineering knowledge so I did all the work and they then read through, signed as certified and then charged me for doing the job myself...

    For boilers out of certificate I had to present the boiler details and previous certificate to a 'perito' (technician) and he then examined, tested and confirmed to the insurance company that all was well.

    For boilers going back to the UK no account was taken of the Italian test and all paperwork and examination was done from scratch. Luckily this was to a published design and the boiler was built before the CE marking system and by a private individual.

    Here it is very normal for loco boilers for the smaller gauges to be built in Stainless Steel. Despite all of the debate on Stress Corrosion Cracking of Austenitic SS it seems that German, French, Italian and Spanish boiler inspectors regards this as good practice. In the UK it is not recognised as a suitable boiler material.

    I have just acquired a 7 1/4" Tich in need of a new boiler and this will be built in SS as it will only ever be used in Italy.
     
  10. pbender

    pbender New Member

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    I know for a fact that 2 of our loco's (SHM / Stoomtram Hoorn-Medemblik / http://www.museumstoomtram.nl ) (GS 18 and NS 7742) has visited the Bluebell Railway in working order. This was done on their Dutch boiler certificate. I will ask the SHM CME for details on my next firing turn.

    Paul Bender
     
  11. boldford

    boldford New Member

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    Perhaps a Dutch boiler certificate is considered in a different light to an Italian one for some reason. :-k
     
  12. wheres my post gone!
     
  13. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr New Member

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    Surely if the boiler's insurers are happy to maintain cover while the boiler is abroad, and the host railway is happy with that level of cover, it wouldn't need another boiler certificate.
     
  14. pbender

    pbender New Member

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    To my knowledge the alteration of the EU laws regarding boilers had a lot to do with the (cheap) Italian boilers. This seemed strange to me, until recently. One of my clients has a service centre for (domestic) esspresso machines. Each espresso machine has a small boiler with a working pressure above 3 bar. It is not unreasonable the Italians wants to make them as cheap as possible. This has nothing to do with engineering problems (or unwillingness), but with the large quantities involved.

    I still have to check on the SHM cme for the "Bluebell link" details

    Paul Bender
     
  15. planetpower

    planetpower New Member

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    In 1995 the Ffestiniog brought several locos over from france for the gala but im not sure about the boiler insurence aspects of doing it.
     
  16. 53807

    53807 New Member

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    This was on traction engines rather than railway engines but a couple of years ago some engines were brought from NZ to the UK for a visit and although they were all inspected to the NZ standards they all had to be fully retested to UK standards before they were allowed to steam here. The NZ representative of the engine owners was informed as to the UK standards and this was not passed on. If it had been passed to the engine owners they could have had their engines tested in NZ to the UK std and it would have been no problem and away they go in steam.
     
  17. PolSteam

    PolSteam New Member

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    OK, I can chip in practical experience of the British, Polish and Belgium systems.

    I blazed the trail in Poland by buying Ol49-12 from a scrapyard. It was transported by rail to a depot, and after re writing the Polish boiler regs, to something near British practice, the boiler was retubed, and first tested to 1.25 x working pressure, under water, and the 1.50 x working pressure. It passed bot easily, despite the inspector saying it would not hold the higher test, which is what we use. When the loco left Poland, it had been steam tested, and the paper work was totally complete. In Belgium, the inspector there, only wanted to see the complete boiler paperwork, and wanted to cut test samples out of an overhauled boiler. As we only had all the boiler history since 1990, and not 1956, when it was built, he would not even look at the boiler. We contacted a Loydds approved inspector and paid him to inspect and insure the boiler by Loydds of London. This had not been done before, but under EU law, the Belgium inspector could not stop the engine steaming. Europe is a mine field of different standards, and I'm glad I had the chance to help get Polish regs changed a bit to allow scrap engines to be restored privately, like we do here. I would like to go into more detail, but I might be doing a more detailed publication on this exact subject, among others. ;)
     

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