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Open access operator for Wessex?

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Romsey, Nov 8, 2016.

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  1. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    This may be a bit of wishful thinking, but who knows.

    http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...pton-london-open-access-service-proposed.html

    As I type this I'll bet SWT (also First Group - just in case the do win the franchise) are working out their opposition to present to ORR. It has been in the background for a while but has finally gone public. It could explain why some 442's are being kept in operating condition.

    I can foresee a few problems, not least where to empty the CET toilet tanks without visiting SWT depots ..... I'm going to sit back and watch the fireworks.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  2. Steve1015

    Steve1015 Member

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    Take you point Neil but if there was some road access there is nothing stopping a "CET" lorry pulling along side and having a suck
     
  3. buzby2

    buzby2 Member

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    Is there sufficient track capacity through Southampton tunnel and as far as St Denys for instance?
    Also, despite four tracks between Basingstoke and Waterloo they all get very busy with commuter services, etc..
     
  4. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    I'm not involved with the open access operator, but thanks for the comments.

    For CET there is reasonable road access to Eastleigh works - which is the only non SWT electrified sidings hereabouts. This would be subject to discussions between the operator and Arlington Fleet Services.
    Accessing the works on a regular basis each day could be problematical as all movements would be via the two reversible platforms at Eastleigh.
    As a train planner who worked on the Wessex route (starting long ago in the days of BR) St Denys - Southampton isn't too much of a problem but wrong line movements to Northam Depot and car trains to and from the Eastern Docks can tie things in knots. In the London area, the killer for any additional trains, is services stopping on the fast line platforms at Clapham Jn. Simply that uses 2 non stop paths on the fast lines. Waterloo platform workings are another subject completely and liable to be complex if the new operator had to use a specified platform.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  5. daddsie

    daddsie Guest

    Is there any extra capacity at Victoria? Could be useful having a 'north of the river' terminus
     
  6. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Isn't the new operator planning to use the Eurostar platforms once converted for "normal" use - in which case would it be feasible to operate services via Putney to give a more direct entry into the Clapham - Waterloo corridor ?
     
  7. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    And add 45 minutes to the journey time? That should pull in the punters.
     
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  8. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    The "Windsor Lines " services will use Waterloo platforms 20 to 24 to allow 10 car suburban workings. In turn that frees up space in the higher numbered platforms for main line/outer suburban services.

    I presume via Putney you are referring to the East Putney line used by LUL. Sorry, not a chance with the frequent LUL services. Running via Chertsey, Staines and Barnes to the Eurostar platforms would add about 35 minutes and nearer 45 minutes if going to Victoria. As for capacity, Victoria Central is full and Victoria Eastern very nearly so. ( Each Surrey Hills working needs at least 4 or 5 consequential alterations to operate.) Running via Stewarts Lane Jn to either side of Victoria is quite a complex bit of timing, with numerous conflicting movements.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  9. daddsie

    daddsie Guest

    OK cheers, thats my plan out of the window
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Two thoughts on this news.

    1. As far as steam charters are concerned, more trains on the SWML will probably kick into touch any path availability especially on the Worting to Southampton section.
    2. My understanding has always been that Waterloo is actually three stations: local lines, main lines and Windsor lines. The three routes in and out of Wloo are more or less independent of each other and are diagrammed as such. That is one reason why everything stops at Wloo when a steam charter leaves P19 (that I believe is on the Windsor side) and crosses to the main line. My point is that any expectation that the release of P20 to 24 will provide platform availability for services coming up from Basingstoke may be misguided, unless something quite significant is happening to signalling and the logistics of pathing into Wloo.
     
  11. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    The ex Eurostar platforms already have a user arranged in the form of SWT!

    Over the next 12 - 18 months Network Rail are going to comprehensively rebuild Waterloo and the station throat, with the ex international platforms requiring to be intensively used by SWT Windsor line services displaced from phase 1 of the works. Over subsequent phases the works progressively shift across to platforms 1 -4 which require particularly difficult lengthening work so as to be able to accommodate 10 car suburban formations.

    Thus there will not be any extra capacity at Waterloo in the short term - and in the longer term what spare capacity there is is likely to be gobbled up by SWT.

    Also, since BR removed the flyover over the Windsor lines, up trains heading to London must snake their way across the down Windsor lines to get from the spur to the up lines. This decimates the capacity of the down Windsor lines and is why most SWT moves (baring engineering work diversions or the odd off peak move) over the East Putney - Wimbledon route are in the down direction as far as the depot - (Accessing the down line at Wimbledon from the East Putney route requires crossing the up SWML on the flat with similar ruinous effects on train paths as on the Windsor lines).
     
  12. Romsey

    Romsey Member

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    Rumours from within operations suggest open access timings will be in the December WTT. No confirmed starting date, but it has been suggested they will start as 5 cars for the first few months.

    Cheers, Neil
     

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