Next New Build to be completed

Where do you draw the line? Even a loco like Tornado (which most people would consider a "new build") had some original components, notably as I understand an original LNER tender underframe. On the other hand, most individual components making up a locomotive have been renewed / replaced somewhere or other in heritage "overhauls" - I can think of one standard gauge overhaul / rebuild that, when finished, will have seen the loco acquire a new boiler, cylinders, probably frames, tanks, bunker substantial parts of the motion, substantial parts of the cab etc - not much apart from some small fittings and the wheels will be original.

I tend towards the view, to avoid too much dancing on pinheads, that if there is continuity of identity (even with substantial replacement of components) it is an overhaul of an original loco; and if there is a new identity (even with substantial "original" parts from a different donor loco) it is a new build. YMMV.

Tom

 

I think they also have the advantage that they have had the spare no.1 sat in the frames for quite some time allowing much of the pipework and fittings to be trial fitted and formed where appropriate, thus hopefully when they finally have a certified boiler it should be somewhat quicvker than normal to complete the fittings etc.

 

Am I imagining it or have I read somewhere (may just be the voices in my head) that 45407 is essentially getting new frames come her next overhaul?

 

I could be wrong here, but I believe that the A1 Steam Trust did originally purchase what was 4472's second tender, but for whatever reasons sold it and built a brand new tender for 60163. I believe that the second tender from 4472 was sold on to Mr Hosking. Didn't it also go Crimson lake for use behind 6233 about 10 years ago?

 

The frames from the second tender used by 4472 was sold to the Flying Scotsman empire pre Jeremy Hosking's days and they became part of the water carrier which was occasionally used behind Bittern.
Don't know about it being painted the wrong colour.
Every part of Tornado was new with the exception of the chime whistle, the mechanical lubricator and the front and rear marker lights. There may have been one or two other smaller bits and pieces but senior memory and all that.....

 

Bittern visited S-0-A a while back now with two tenders. The whole ensemble was garter blue. I noted that as it went to Hatton to turn and some poor soul was sitting in the corridor with a radio for safety purposes

 

Wouldn't be surprised and I think a few more owners need to prepare themselves for this kind of thing.

 

These days with modern CNC machining and cutting this could easily be the best long term repair rather than the cut-out, patch and weld repairs done in the past - its a positive step forward. I seam to recall Class 5's are susceptible to cracking around the horns - is that what's up with 5407?

 

I think that a further reason was that the three-axle rigid driving wheelbase was scraping somewhat on the endless curves. Same as now when railways prefer a Bo-Bo to a Co-Co if they can achieve a tolerable axle load.

 

Always wondered how the bigger version Baldwin sold to Victorian railways for they're 2ft6 lines, suitably regauged, would do on the L&B

 

That's a very good question. Probably would've been bad on the curves on the line.

 

Why? The curves on the puffing Billy seem sharper!

 

http://www.national-preservation.com/index.php?posts/1672488

 

Cutting CNC frames would be the cheaper part of the exercise by far.
Removing and refitting all the bits which are part of the frame structure and all other parts which are attached to them would be by far the larger part of the cost.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if you have to go back and do the repair again after a few years what's the 'best' and most economical solution, that's probably were 5407 is now? Its a bit like locomotive cylinders, in the earlier days of preservation weld repairs had been the only option used and some have not lasted that long and nowadays replacement is probably the first option unless its only a minor repair. Its also been great to see the use for example of disposable patterns rather than the expensive wooden patterns of old making it so much cheaper.

 

Cutting replacement frames for 45407 wouldn't be a first in preservation. 4561 on the WSR has already had a new set cut to replace its own life expired ones. I seem to remember reading (and I'm not at home to check the reference) that B.R. acttually had 6 more sets of frames than it had Black 5's for this very reason.
Unlike the Saint and County projects which one could argue are 'rebuilds' by "re-arranging standardised GWR components" the Grange has had new frames cut so I would consider it a new build.
Ray.

 

I'm not a mechanical engineer by any stretch of the imagination however even my untrained eye could tell that the frames on 4561 were absolutely knackered.

 

For a non-engineer, you have a very good grasp of certain technical terms !

Steven

 

thus 4561 is a new build....personally I don't care....new or ancient, still a loco, still of interest.

 

Sorry, this new frames equals new build stuff is nonsense. Lots of locos had frame replacements in service, and (despite persistent myth) frames were not always kept as the loco's source of identity, as my link above to something I posted recently on another thread was supposed to illustrate.