New Build P2

I would imagine there's a handful, but I don't know. I can't see you'd be able to manage a roving loco and the commercail/PR side without a few, would you?

 

The dimensions are similar, but the boilers are not interchangable. Gresley is credited as the only UK designer who probably understood the value of high superheat, so you would want to keep the 776.5 sq. ft. of the dia. 106 or the 748.9 sq. ft of the dia. 108 if you decided to go with the combustion chamber. I have not had chance to go over all the relevant ratios of the various contenders in the boiler stakes but the Thompson boilers have been criticised as being an unbalanced design. If we are to build a replica then it has to be more than a rough approximation with decisions being taken on the grounds of convenience. The double chimney Kylchap fitted P2s are credited with steaming well but it would be worth looking at the exhaust system again just to make doubly sure and even make some improvements. Double Lempor anyone?

 

I think all this boiler debate is academic. The only design that makes sense is another to the same design as the new A1. Drawings recently done, design approved and proven, and interchangeable with Tornado's. Why would you deviate from that? The 'P2' isn't supposed to be an exact replica after all.

 

Since when did sense come into it .LOL. of course your right, it made sense to run flying scotsman with an A4 Boiler (except to the NRM,lets not go there).
So the extra length gets put into the smoke box allowing the spark arrestors to go in and everyones happy.
But hang on...perhaps if they made the wheels a bit smaller too and made the whole thing a little shorter, dont need cylinders that big at 250 psi and and it needs to be less than 13ft tall and.... ooops its a scale model...

 

Let's be honest here. Underneath the cladding, the A1 is not an exact replica, is it?

 

Excuse my bizarre sense of humour...
No it isnt but its pretty close, i think the A1SLT are keen to point out that in most respects it is as close to an A1 as they could get without it costing a fair bit more, taking longer and apart from the riding its performance is pretty similar to the originals

 

ta da....

 

I've suggested to the mods that all the P2 stuff on the Tornado thread be moved to here ....

 

I for one certainly support the idea of building a P2 (absolutely if it's built by the A1SLT).

And as for the comments being made, saying that a P2 wouldn't be a good choice for a new build project in terms of practicality/ realisticly wise... Just remember this is the A1SLT (who are still doing feasibility study on building a P2) were talking about, they see things very differently to most other people. Where, for example, most people see a problem and linger on it, they see a problem and find a solution. The A1SLT are very clever (but sensible) people and alway think realisticly, so I'm sure they didn't think of building a P2 just because they wanted to, they also thought of building one because they believe they can, (their idea of building a P2 has been in their thoughts for quite a long time, so I'm sure they've had a good long thought about it, the issues and the solutions, so their not going into it unprepared).

And I'm sure their must be people thinking out there right now, that didn't I hear people saying the same thing about Tornado, I know building a new P2 is a bit different but the same basic words were said back then as they are said for the P2... "It can't be done..." One of the main reasons the A1SLT was formed was to basically prove those people wrong... And there's no doubt in my mind that, whatever they decide to do, they'll do it again... Triumphantly...

 

There's now 2 proposals isn't there though ?

A1 lot are doing a study into building one in Darlington to original 2001 style.

Then another group in Doncaster want to build one in the rebuilt A4-streamlined stlye.

 

Only the first two P2s were rebuilt. The others were new builds in the A4 style.

 

Yeah sorry, should of put re-designed!

 

Yes Lil Bear, the fat on this issue was getting a good knashing on the Tornado thread. Both Sheff and myself had the idea to wake this thread up as a more suitable home for such...
Everyones entitled to their opinion, mine is that putting the A4 Nose on the P2 makes it look like an A4 (although i cannot imagine that any of the existing A4'S will ever carry full fairings and apple green again which is a shame) might as well 'new build' the later form of 'Hush Hush'...

 

Just to summarize what was presented at the A1SLT convention and gleaned from a later conversation with David Elliott on October 9th 2010:
1. It is 95% probable that the feasibility study will decide that building a 2-8-2 will be viable.
2. It would have a modified 250 psi A1 boiler and smaller cylinders (to fit modern loading gauge) to give the same tractive effort.
3. Pony truck to be the same type as used on the V2.
4. It will have the original front end (because the streamlined front might be perceived (by Joe Public) as a badly finished A4!).
5. Modified Caprotti valvegear.
6. Number will be 2007, no indication of a possible name yet.
7. The frames construction may be radically changed (in the light of the experience with 60163).
8. David Elliott would like to see it built in 10 years (i.e. before he retires), and views this as achievable subject to finance.
9. The design of the inside cylinder may be completely revised.

I just wonder if the above means that the new locomotive would be a P2/4 or a completely new class, a P3. In particular the boiler and cylinder changes would surely mean that these would be completely incompatible with the original P2's.

 

Must have been stood behind you ! , other coversations and correpondence might further this by saying:

3) and same Cartazzi as Tornado ( i believe tweaked to be more like the A4)
5) Ie BR Caprotti as 71000
7) made in one piece, possibly in Germany
9) the Original P2 Inside Cylinder / valves / steam chest etc we're a monobloc as for the V2, This is an over complex a casting for a 1 (or 2 ) off - there is also the change in cylinder size, valve gear orientation and perhaps further refinement to ports and passages to consider.
This redevelopment of the 'front end', not the running chassis, is without doubt the most complex engineering challenge of the project.

Perhaps as all the other P's have gone it should be a Gresley/Elliot P1 ?

 

Thanks guys. Very positive news, and something that sounds very exciting. Looking forward to see how things develop with this.

 

I'm loving this.
As we all know, the LNER fared badly in the preservation stakes, at least in post grouping designs (6 A4s notwithstanding).
Now we are seeing the balance redressed a little.

A1 Tornado
F5
G5
B17
2 @ P2

All we need now is a proposal for a W1 and we will be really moving.


Even the LBSC Atlantic will carry a GNR (maybe LNER built) boiler.

I could even be content to see 4472 stay in its double chimney / deflectors guise if we had a replica 1470.

I wish every success to all of these groups.

 

Would that be the original which caused problems on the V2s, or the Stanier 8F type which was used to fix them?

 

K2
K3
L1
J39
J50
V1
V3

 

I was trying not to be greedy.