New Build P2

Aye, and the south , east, west. Perhaps Cock'o'th lot. Waiting for someone to come up with an inappropriate abbreviation...sure Mr Allatt could appear next to it with some size related strapline...there was quite a funny thread a while back on politically incorrect Loco Names, most we're from the LNER Pacifics 'stable'. It would be good if a suitable Historic Scots Title with the same Gravitas as the originals can be found though...

 

Well how about "Bonnie Prince Charlie" - given his predilection for Tornado

 

No-one has yet mentioned the fact that they appear to have not been particularly good riding engines, and had something of a habit of knocking the track about. Network rail aren't going to like that at all. Certainly the great Andre Chapelon had some distinct views about their ride qualities when Cock O' The North was tested in France, and appears to have believed that they would benefit from the fitting of a Zara truck at the front (which would have the VAB in fits of apoplexy). It also had a habit of running hot apparently. All this is likely to cost a fortune in VAB work, and the resource to handle this sort of thing is likely to diminish over the coming years with retirements and the like reducing the depth of knowledge on such matters within the VAB's. It is also a fact that once an organisation gets an engine into traffic, the ability to fix others diminishes because of the demands of running. So instead of 19 years, think anything up to 30 years and £mega. I rather suspect that not much more than half way into that period most of the convenantor base is going to succumb to either anno domini or further pension raids if things go the wrong way in the next few weeks. Do not expect to see a P2 any time soon, unless someone wins the Euromillions.

 

Nice one Sheff. Least no ones suggested 'BraveHeart', mind you; Obi Wan Kenobi is a bit scottish, might get some of the younger punters on board.
In reply to crew hall: The riding is perhaps something that can be improved, (got it wrong on the P2'S got it right on the A4, and then wrong again on the A1 but for different reasons) and as for running hot - axle boxes or middle engines - that too was sorted out with a bit of the wiltshire wisdom (but too late for the P2's) but alas you are probably right on just about everything else, many a newbuild project is likely to be shored up with bequests over the coming years, and youve reminded me to get me lotto ticket.

 

Regarding the ride and leading truck - I believe this was a similar design to the original V2's which was sorted out successfully, so there's a precedent there.

 

"2001 had Lentz gear not Caprotti."

Mea culpa. At my age one should never trust to memory

 

Now an Italian bogie (or the Zara truck) on a P2, that would be a sight. Off hand I can not think of any UK mainline locos fitted with coupling rods that swivel around the vertical axis. Were there any?

 

Dont forget P2's were experimental locomotives.... maybe there's oppoourtunity to take advantage of Porta's designs here and make a true 21st Century steam locomotive.

 

Acording to Holcroft the GWR 2-8-0 tanks had spherical joints to permit movement in both planes.

 

No need to apologise - if I had a £1 for everyone of my mental aberrations --------.

Regarding coupling rods. The GER fitted spring controlled side play on the rear axle of the 1500s (later B12) and included sperical bushes at both ends of the rear section of the rods to allow for this.

 

Although many new ideas first appeared with this locomotive' a small class of them was built for a particular task, which in theory they were the answer to, in this respect they were no more experimental than the GWR 47xx's, If this 1930s conceived design, modified by the hindsight that its desendents gradually accrued over 30 years can be succesfully built using surviving skills and modern fabrication methods ..with, 40,000+ tractive effort, 80 tonnes plus adhesion - it could already toy with the longest trains that todays stations can accomodate, so apart from the fuel efficiency why bother with Porta ? .
Whatever peoples gripes about the 5AT Project (Most dont like the look of it) it is perhaps the better vehicle to lead the way with the contemporary combustion theories, whilst the 4-6-0 has seemingly demonstrated its eminent suitability to the British railway... personally (wait for it...) the riddles/cox/bond 2-8-2 which never got of the drawing board would be an ideal canvas for this development. (Check out 'how to drive a steamLocomotive by Brian Hollingsworth for a glimpse of what might have been/ or will be when i win the Euro millions.

Was'nt there a worsdell 0-10-0 tank with some form of articulated coupling rod ?

 

How about building the Harrison Pacific; Freddie Harrison's first design for the BR Class 8

 

The apparent enthusiasm for building locos that were pretty much failures or even more amazing were abandoned at design or phase does bemuse me... Tornado sure: the Peppercorns were generally regarded as Gresley pacifics with the mistakes removed, and probably the best Pacifics of all, so its an obvious and good project, and there are good arguments for the Saint and the Grange, but why the GWS want to recreate one of Churchward's rough riders defeats me... As for those who suggest the Leader: lets face it if something of equivalent craziness were proposed in these days one would be asking questions about white powder consumption...

 

and in any case, i wouldnt even recomend cleaning anything metalic with Vim, let alone consuming it...

 

By whom?

 

What were they, exactly? We've still got 3 on the manline and they don't appear to give much trouble, rather the opposite if anything, certainly less than some other types.

 

A BR long term costing exercise measuring repair costs per mile for a number of classes of locomotive was carried out between 1953 and 1955. The results were:-

A1 8.53d
Castle 9.73d

WC 12.33d
Duchess 12.70d

The roller bearing fitted locomotives averaged approaching 120,000 miles between classified repairs.

 

I know the roller bearing A1s gave good mileage but the repair costs per mile quoted above compare the A1s with locos from the other Big 4 companies, not the A4s.
I'd argue that the Peppercorn Pacifics were Thompson Pacifics with the mistakes removed.

 

And I'd agree with you.

 

Thankyou Sir.
As you pointed out in an earlier post just what were the mistakes with the Gresley Pacifics? The middle big ends were a bit of an Achilles' Heel but post war mods sorted that out and having three separate sets of valve gear is no guarantee against middle big end failure as recent events with 46115 have so sadly demonstrated. 34A and 64B were happy enough to use A4s on their most prestigious workings right up to the end of steam so can't have been much wrong with them.