New Build Night Owl - 4709 Begins

It appears that the GWS is like a pick and mix shop at the moment.

 

Did anyone get a chance to make an offer. I think not. When they were part of the Barry ten, Vale of Glamorgan Council put the not for sale notices up. Then Cambrian got involved. Suddenly, things started to happen, but, other than 80150, it seems that a lot of what was going on was rather secretive and in a small circle of people. Remember, Ian Riley tried to buy 44901 and got turned down. Now, apparently, a deal is about to be done with someone else for this loco. Indeed, was 48518 ever advertised as being for sale?

 

Like it. Made I laugh that did.

 

I can't understand people who criticise the G.W.S. for having numerous projects running at the same time. All of these projects are progressing at different rates related to their respective fund-raising efforts, but progressing they are. The 47xx project will succeed - it's just a matter of how long it takes. The biggest item required is a new boiler,
but the cost of this in relation to the whole whole project is partially offset by the number of components readily available.
The chances of any of the donor locos being restored was pretty remote, hence the reason that they weren't bought from Woodhams in the first place.
There is a Churchward 28xx for sale at Llangollen (& has been for quite a while !). This loco only ran for 6 months after a heavy general repair at Stafford Road & has an excellent boiler plus the majority of the motion. I'm surprised that nobody has snapped this one up, some poor examples being sold recently.
What I would like to see is the G.W.S. forming partnerships with some of the established heritage lines & loaning locos. & rolling stock in deals where the heritage line restores & operates the item for X number of years & hands it back in restored/working order. Obviously they would need to be selective about which lines to partner with, as there are some out there with a poor record of looking after other lines items.

Bob.

 

More the merrier as far as I'm concerned. So long as the donor loco isn't unique, then using it to create an extinct species can only be a good thing.

 

Still waiting for the lotto win....

 

Sums up my attitude. My posts earlier on this thread were me being reflective rather than out and out opposing.

 

2859 is my lotto winnings loco too...I'll fight you for it! It was very nearly purchased by what is now the 2857 society when at Barry.

 

You are welcome to her gents, just don't stand in my way with my 7229, 7027 and 2873 lottery winnings set!

 

Joking apart, of course that is historical. When a locomotive came into Swindon works for a heavy General it was stripped down to the frames and all the detachable parts went off into the bosh tank to be cleaned up, refurbished, and, I assume back to the stores. Then as parts were required they went to the stores and picked up the appropriate refurbished part and put it on. I think its A E Durrant in his book who tells the story of fitting a rod marked with a 4-4-2T number some twenty years after the last 4-4-2T had been scrapped.

 

Out of curiosity, what will happen to the frames and other residual bits of 4115 (and indeed, to the frames and other bits of any other donor loco) once the required parts have been recovered for whichever new build they are being used for?

My reason for asking is that there is a lot of talk that such and such a loco is being sacrificed so a new build can be constructed. But realistically, the remains of 4115 are not much more than frames, cylinders, boiler, wheels. Pretty much everything else would have to be either built new, or at least cannibalised from some other classmate. In heritage circles, most people would call a freshly restored 4115 "original" even if it sported a new boiler, wheels, cylinders, motion, tanks, platework etc - indeed there are plenty of "historic survivors" carrying just as much new stuff. (One thinks of the IoW terriers, with new boilers and cylinders; or a Bluebell terrier with new wheels). Plenty of "original" locos are running with new smokeboxes; boilers patched to within a woodsman's axe of being brand new; newly machined motion; completely new tenders; and multiple other parts. In the aeroplane restoration field, there are planes with "genuine WW II provenance" with barely an ounce of original metal still flying (I exaggerate only slightly), but no-one seems to mind too much.

So just supposing someone amongst those bemoaning the loss of a historic loco (4115; LNER-built 8F; take your pick) put their money where their mouth was and did a "restoration from Barry condition" that basically rebuilt everything new except one or two major components - would anyone actually think the final outcome any less "real" than any other loco on a heritage line today? The point is, the longer we run locos on heritage lines or the mainline, the further they all get from original. In other words, I don't really see 4115 as "lost"; it's just that any putative restoration will end up with more construction and less refurbishment. Such a loco will only truly be lost if no-one cares enough to restore it (and it is notable that the GWS seemingly has financial backing to build a 47xx, but not for another 41xx). At which point, those bemoaning its loss will only have themselves to blame.

Tom (observing from a distance, and not involved in any way with any of the GWS schemes)

 

4115 no longer exists. Main Frames and cylinder block have gone to Tyseley and the boiler is going to Crewe to be overhauled for 6634.

4709 is to use the extension frames and wheels (except the rear pony truck obv)

 

What are Tyseley planning on using the frames and cylinder block for?

 

No idea, though 4110 and 4121 are on site there. Could be just coincidence however.

 

But doesn't that demonstrate my point? Various components are being shuffled round various engines to simplify restorations / builds. But effectively the frames and cylinders still exist (and any reconstruction could presumably use the boiler from 6634 as a starting point, if that engine is receiving 4115's; as well as the fact that the GWS will end up with suitable patterns for new wheels). So if the will existed to see her run in the future, it would be possible. She will only truly be gone if those final components are melted down for scrap - or, more likely, simply allowed to decay to rust because no-one is passionate enough to want to see her saved.

The issue of the movement building new engines when there are still plenty of "originals" unrestored is admittedly a complex issue. But it seems to me many people are looking at it from the point of view of worrying about a particular engine being lost so another can be created; but they aren't always considering that actually, the alternative is not that the unrestored locos would be restored, but that actually in many cases they would simply rust away. Given such an alternative, my view is it is better to use what is useful in a new build that will actually get built (the GWS have a good track record) than prevent such use and eventually see everything decay to rust - at which point, you've lost the original and still don't have the new build.

Tom

 

Just seen a photo this evening of 4709's freshly cut main frames. They are to be transported to Llangollen where they be put on display in time for SSS3.

Also found this which gives a bit more info of the project.
http://mediafiles.thedms.co.uk/Publ.../Partner-Press-ReleaseDidcotRailway310112.pdf

 

So, the frames have been cut and I guess a 47xx now actually exists technically. This makes me look even more of a fool for suggesting it would never happen but sometimes being proven a fool is not a bad thing. A bit like the chap who goes on about peak oil and the Somerset & Dorset Railway. I bet he is finding the current petrol situation highly amusing! This is, of course only a taster for the future when someone makes a serious political gaffe so perhaps more new steam locomotives might actually help us!