New Build Night Owl - 4709 Begins

Cheers, there is also a picture of 4709 in that set, the progress seems slow https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewkmurray/53779281152/in/photostream/

 

That seems to confirm that very little has actually happened besides a (presumably expensive) move to the GC and back and the flow of much ink.

 

As there has been a flurry of activity on the Thornbury thread perhaps it would be more appropriate to use this thread. I - along with many other people regret that Thornbury has not been restored as such...but despite our thoughts, there was not the finance to back such a proposal when the GCR benefactor withdrew support and no other individual or group came forward.
So we come back to the Night Owl and let us hope that it will now progress and achieve it's aim of recreating (very nearly) an extinct GWR class.
An update as to the current state of the project would be great.

 

AFAIK it will be an accurate re-creation except for the Castle boiler, and I am partly persuaded by the reasons for using that. One reason was the fact of its availability and the consequent large potential cost saving over a new one, and therefore also saving of time in waiting for the funds to come in; though the cost saving may be cancelled out by the possible reduction in donations from those who resent the sacrifice of the Castle. The other reason is the alleged need to reduce the loco's height to allow movements on NR, though it seems questionable whether that it really necessary for the very limited movements to get it in and out of Didcot Railway Centre.
It will be no less accurate than the County with even less convincing reasons for using a few bits of an 8F boiler.
But both projects compare poorly with the Saint, where a lot of effort went into a very accurate re-creation (new cylinders with internal steam pipes, lever reverse, etc).

 

But how many of these problems will the average visitor be able to spot, without having to have them pointed out? If the end result looks right on the outside, I don't think it matters.

 

I'm not sure that's a safe assumption. They are known to have had their new cylinders cast, so indoor work would be concentrating on the extension frames/cylinder assembly. One of the features of the Churchward design is that the whole front end assembly can be worked on independently of the frames. In Swindon days when a locomotive was known to be going to require new cylinders at the next overhaul the whole front end assembly would be built up in the works so it was ready and waiting when the locomotive came in.

I think with boilers it's worth remembering that AIUI barrels are fairly cheap, and copper fireboxes are very expensive. The Castle firebox in particular is very close to the Std 7 one, being a direct derivative of it.

 

I also saw that in the GWS accounts, whatever is going on they are doing bloody well to maintain that level of funding whilst basically maintaining complete radio silence (albeit IIRC (I may have imagined it) they were able to proceed with the 7027 purchase in part off the back of someone making a big donation so that might be covered in that income?), albeit the fund is still c.£40k in the red and to my untrained eye it was not clear whether the repayment plan mentioned was payments to the previous owner of 7027 or to the GWS?

 

Were I to win such an amount (unlikely), it certainly wouldn't be heading anywhere near the over-represented GWR

 

The price of the Patriot boiler and that quoted for 4709's new boiler were approximately the same as the price paid for each of the A1 Locomotive Trust's two boilers with steel fireboxes. If the latter hadn't ordered two boilers at the same time, their boilers would have been more expensive!

With one (or two!)-off boilers, the cost of materials is less significant.

 

Talking of the Patriot, does anyone know whether the 4709 group have completed a similar audit regarding paperwork and quality of work considering that both projects were being erected by contractors in the same workshops and the problems the Patriot group have subsequently encountered?

 

The (presumed!) lack of progress with 4709 makes that easier to remedy. Also if it's not to be used on the national network, it's not so important.

 

I think you will find that all new builds have to have full documentation.

 

The documentation for mainline use is much more comprehensive than site use only.

 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057195920456&locale=en_GB
Progress update on facebook.

 

It was interesting that there was no mention in the update about the boiler, could the 4709 group be leaving that to later in the build, just in case there is a donor prepared to buy a new boiler?

 

Presumably nothing to update as there is no hurry or has been no opportunity to work on it, or perhaps it needs to 'cool down' a bit before they can.

 

The statement was possible more noteworthy for what it didn't mention than what it did, as for the boiler issue one assumes that they are following a similar approach to that Basil Fawlty took with regards to the war....

Does anyone know what has/is happening to Thornbury's tender as they don't seem to be using it?

 

Their previous update (23 Aug 2023) talks about the boiler "if the initial inspection of Thornbury’s boiler was in any way accurate, a major overhaul would ready it for service for a fraction of the cost of a new boiler and several years earlier. A conservative estimate of the time and cost savings puts these at half a million pounds and at least five years.".
Presumably if the boiler won't take too much work/time, then it makes sense to leave work on the boiler until nearer the time it will actually be needed (Don't want to start any clocks ticking until you need too).

 

If there is no hurry, why buy 7027? Personally, I'd like to see the latter converted into a compound Castle, as proposed by Hawksworth and Stanier, but rejected by the spoilsport Collett. To be named Andre Chapelon, of course. I just know that there would be overwhelming support for such a proposal on this forum!

https://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/fictitious.php