Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by SpudUk, Jan 13, 2010.
With a bit of tweaking should fit L&B, and would probably fit the WHR. It sure is beautiful.
CGR_NG_4-6-2T_1908_diagram by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
Herewith the basic dimensions.
The fixed wheelbase might need close scrutiny for either of those lines .... if the folks on the WHR were anxious about native local Russell negotiating that sharp curve at Bryn-y-Feiin, I'm guessing some judiciously turned driving wheel tyres may be in order.
It certainly looks as though it wouldn't look out of place alongside the L & B's Baldwin or Manning Wardles.
Something that has puzzled me is why, when we have lots of ex-SAR locos and wagons in this country, there aren't any ex-SAR carriages?
Coupled wheelbase on this SAR Bagnall is 6'3". The Manning Wardles were 6'6". The M-W's were 17'9" total wheelbase, against the Bagnall's 19'1", but overall, the L&B locos were 27' dead, and the Bagnall is 27'9", It would all depend on how "swingy" that front bogie is, and whether the outside bogie frames had enough clearance between the cylinders. The 10,000lb tractive effort could be quite handy-basically a M-W and a half
I don't have a general arrangement of Russell to hand, but one would imagine the Bagnall ought to fit anywhere that a NGG 16 can
The GA drawing seems to suggest flangeless centre driving wheels, like the 9Fs.
Missed that. The centre drivers of the 3ft gauge Tralee & Dingle locos were flangeless (and in the case of surviving 2-6-2T No.5, still are).
Thanks to @ross for digging out the comparative dimensions ... which surprised me, as the coupled wheelbase of the MWs always appears so short.
Being a WHRS member, this has frequently been discussed amongst my colleagues and there is an opinion that there maybe alot of African bugs quietly munching away at the woodwork that would not be welcome in the UK!
The Cape Government Railway operated the Bagnall on the Avontur line - Am I right in thinking it was later home to the Ffestiniog locomotives?
The L&B engines have always reminded me of Dugald Drummond's rudery "All legs and wings, like skinny chickens". Hunslet's use of drive onto the third coupled axle for a 2-6-2T made for a far more compact, better proportioned machine.
Besides which, where would they actually be used? The WHR has found new-build stock better suited to its needs, since they can incorporate modern luxuries like corridors, toilets, refreshment service, etc...
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Other railways are available! - South Tynedale might have provided a home for some, for example.
When we purchased our first two NGG16 locos No's 138 and 143 from Alfred Country Railway for the WHR we did have a look round to see if a carriage might be available. Really just as a nice to have. ACR hadn't got any carriages to spare at the time and the government owned 2ft gauge Port Elizabeth line wanted to keep all they had for their regular tourist trains. We did though eventually secure a very nice bogie brake van for WHR though the generosity of the Sandstone Railway - which was in practical terms much more useful anyway!
I remember years ago visiting Matjiesfontein in the Eastern Cape. Close by the beautiful little station, there was a series of sidings, absolutely filled with out of service carriages, many of them very old, and filled with beautiful woodwork, but just left peeling in the hot sun. I know these were SA standard gauge, but I do wonder if there isn't a narrow gauge equivalent somewhere out there.
Mind you, if there ever was, they've probably been long pillaged to extinction by now.
Further observation, before anyone packs a suitcase- The SAR Bagnall sits 10'6" above the rail, and presumably rolling stock would be a similar profile. The L&B locos were 8'11" tall, rolling stock similar. Catchpole lists the 3 24'6" brake vans as 10'6 max. height, but I'm not sure the photographic evidence corroborates this.
As an idle curiosity, does the Rampton collection have any rolling stock from Africa? It does contain two ex-Beira Railway Falcon NG6's, and a NG15
I think the only rolling stock in the collection is about 6 ex IoM / MNR coaches?
There are a number of ex-South African (3'6" gauge) locos in New Zealand but not, as far as I know, any carriages: my guess is that strict NZ bio-security laws prevent import of wooden carriages.
Has anybody ever compiled a composite loading gauge of (a) all narrow gauge railways in the United Kingdom and Ireland (b) a list of the critical minimum gauge points on each railway?
I spotted 2 SAR class 25s and a Garatt stood in the open at Mercer at the side of SH1 last time I went down past Auckland to see my sister. Not sure what is happening with them. I might try and get a picture tomorrow when I pass
They are being cosmetically being restored. The SAR loading gauge is greater than that of NZR, and whilst the RR Garratts in NZ are being modified to suit the loading gauge, I don't think the class 25s and GMAM can practically be reduced, but I stand to be corrected!
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