Moorlands and City Railway

Agreed - there is some serious money required, and we don't yet know exactly where it's coming from, but I really hope this comes off. It is a win-win situation for my local area, freight off the roads, through trains to the Towers, Leek reconnected to the national network, steam on the Cauldon Lowe branch, and a massive boost to the local tourism industry. I wish them good luck.

 

I suspect there will be a market for occasional charter trains to Alton Towers from London. I often hear folks say its too far to drive there from London for the day, but by Train it would be an easier journey.

 

It would be excellent to get the aggregates moving out by rail again but could someone clarify the coal traffic proposal. What sort of tonnage does the cement works require?

While I can see some prospects for freight and occasional heritage trains to Cauldon Low and possible extension of CVR trains to Leek, the Alton Towers rail link, although headline -grabbing, has always (rejected by Regional Railways back in the '80's as unviable I believe) seemed a strange business proposal.

Yes, heritage trains to Alton Towers would do okay from people staying in the area, and perhaps some excursions, but I remain unconvinced that the vast majority of the 3 million annual visitors to Alton Towers are looking for a direct rail link from Stoke. I would be happy to be proved wrong.

 

Positive attitude

I think we've seen too many ambitious schemes announced in a blaze of glory only for the website to disappear after a while, but nevertheless I hope this one succeeds as I did al lthe others.
The CVR and its members seem to be taking a positive attitude and are to be applauded for recognising the benefits that a joint venture could bring - especially if we consider ourselves to be "pro-rail" rather than simply "pro-preservation". We have not always seen this elsewhere when the big railway came to call, and some curmudgeons have been openly hostile to expansion of any sort.
The finances and short term business plans are against the MCR plan succeeding but I wish it well.
In fact it has inspired me to state here and now that if I were to win over £100m on Euromillions this year I will put down £10m to restart the Mid Hants Railway's fading dream to get back to Winchester. There. I've said it. I can't go back on my word now. Any other lottery winners care to add to the pot?

 

It looks as if the CVR have been hard headed enough to retain control over their "own" railway whilst recognising the benefits that real commercial traffic could bring.

All this talk of rich people and deep pockets is so naive that it perhaps explains why a lot of people aren't seen on this forum anymore.

La Farge are a major aggregates producer, and we are talking Plc not people here. Couple this with coal traffic inbound and the only problem will no doubt be the flat earth global warmers, who will object to carbon footprint or something else that the soap dodgers object to.

Whilst the current recession is having an effect on aggregates for now, the one thing that is certain is that the market will return, and getting the material out, off road, and ready for use is simple common sense

 

Perhaps something of a mixed-metaphor Frank. I think a good description of flat-earthers is people who ignore what others say and believe that because it looks flat, it must be flat regardless of what almost everyone thats actually investigated it says. When told there is consensus, they say it must be some kind of conspiracy. This to me sounds more like those who argue against global warming, though i suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on that one

Anyway, given the benefits of getting many lorries and coaches off the roads i should think the only people likely to be activley against this are some of the residents along the line but i guess we'll hear more of that when work starts next year - im somewhat sceptical at the moment but i look forward to seeing some activity on the ground. Anyone know if a full survey has been done on the line? I remember seeing some photos of it a while back and it does seem to have gone downhill quite badly in places.

Chris

 

One cannot but wish this project well. The potential has been there since different economic conditions and management will, or lack of it, forced the closure. The taking of heavy aggregates and coal traffic off moorland roads and on to rail is a total no-brainer and with a stated quarry viability of 150 years, makes amortisation of the investment a certainty. The problem has always been finding the initial finance to do the work required to bring the track back into use.

With this, as with Alton Towers and Leek re-connection, it is a case of put the facility back and watch the traffic grow. Recent re-openings in Scotland and elsewhere have seen traffic figures far outstrip the most optimistic forecasts. No-one knows the potential of rail traffic to Alton Towers, because it isn't possible at the moment. Likewise, no-one knows the potential for commuting from Leek, because it hasn't been possible for fifty-odd years.

The line closed, like many others, after WWII, in an era of growing car ownership and burgeoning lorry transport. Times have changed. It is only some 20 years ago that I was talking to a B.R. official at Redditch early one morning, as we watched a special train to London, organised by the station staff, loading. I was praising the staff's initiative, (they organised 6 or 7 trips a year, all sell-outs). His reply was, "We really want to close this branch, it's a pain in the arse."

Shortly afterwards, the train service was doubled, traffic went through the roof, then it was electrified...

I know the area and the line very well, having grown up in Stoke during the 50s and 60s. I was one of the earliest members of the North Staffs Railway Society, meeting at The Boat Inn at Cheddleton and wish them success.

If this comes off, it will be outstanding and may form a blueprint for other schemes that remain dormant for lack of vision and cash.

 

As I said before I guess there's an opportunity for some excursion traffic. Looking at the proposal for 'service' trains from Stoke to Alton Towers as suggested elsewhere in this thread though still makes me wonder.

If you're coming from the east by train you can go to Uttoxeter and catch the bus service direct to Alton Towers. There would be little point suffering the awful, flthy Sprinters on the Derby-Stoke route a mile further than absolutely necessary.

So the rail-borne traffic from Stoke would typically rely on West Coast stations and stations west. At Stoke at the moment you can catch one of the five bus services running every morning to Alton Towers- it apparently takes something over half an hour but less than an hour. If you buy your theme park ticket on the bus the bus ride is free. Alternatively the bus is £5 return. It takes you to the theme park entrance.

The new rail service would head off to Leekbrook, where , currently a reversal would be required. Then it's off down the Churnet Valley at whatever speed and on to Alton Towers station, possibly taking paths between heritage services. At Alton Towers you would then have to find a waiting bus to take you up the road to the theme park entrance and your day out could then begin. That is, of course, unless the theme park finds some ingenious method of rapid transit to get you into the park or opens a new entrance.

The trains would then have little to do all day until the day-trippers head home late afternoon. Given the investment required (as suggested earlier in thread) to build platforms at Stoke, have dedicated stock, upgrade the line to 60mph running and relay to Alton Towers, perhaps build a new station there, plus ongoing staffing costs, the service will have to go some and shift some serious numbers, or attract serious subsidy from someone. This expensive bit of railway will have also little traffic for 5 months of the year as well.

Surely much better to leave the Alton Towers proposals for the future and concentrate, as I understand M&CR initially intend to, on the freight to Caldon Low, excursion traffic and then extension to Leek. I agree with Martin that a photo charter with an 8F to Caldon Low could be very interesting!

 

The platforms at Oakamoor and Alton Towers are still there as I have walked most of the old trrackbed from Leek to Alton. The only new stations required will be Leek and if I've read correctly Stoke.

 

There is still an entrance right opposite the old station, not been used for years but I'm sure the Towers would bung in a cheapo monorail or something to get people up the hill.
I am, however, in full agreement that the line from Stoke is not "direct" enough, especially with the reversal at Leekbrook. To get your moneys worth at the Towers rip off prices you have to be there on the dot at opening time and stay until they chuck you out. I should know I used to work there!
I am sure there is a market for excursions, and for a local service for people staying at the many hotels/pubs/campsites/bed and breakfasts in Leek, Cheddleton, Froghall, Oakamoor etc who want to avoid the hassle of driving to the Towers and paying to park.

 

I used to get £1.40 an hour at the Towers back in '87 ! Hour after hour on the fizzy drinks machine- sometimes it was so busy someone else had to put the ice in and a third person the lid on!

 

Do they make you pay to park the car at Alton Towers now?

 

Yes, its a fiver. They never pass up an opportunity to grab more money.

 

Just to add to Lil Bears statement. Alton Station is more or less completely intact. This is shown by the below link. I think it is a marvelous project and cannot wait for it to be completed. I highly recommend looking the track bed up on google earth as that will give you the scale of the project.

Alton Station

 

That looks a terrific little station, with the potential for nice long platforms for excursions, assuming its available to use ? If travelling from the mainline from the south wouldn't an excursion need to do a second reversal at Stoke ? Two reversals might make it all a bit too inconvenient.

Isn't there a tunnel near Oakamoor, anyone got any pictures ? Is it a long and hence expensive one ?

 

497 yards.
Photo here http://www.flickr.com/photos/d9006/3475502367/

 

Great photos shows what we are missing, love the walk through Dimingsdale. I suppose that a new station would have to be built at Alton as the old one I think, is owned by a trust?

 

Thanks for the photos. Looking though them; as well as a Tunnel on that section the photos suggest the former rail bridge (now a road) is 'weak' (3 tonne limit on the sign). That could also be another barrier to reinstatement if it really is that bad.

As others have said the Alton towers section looks like maybe its the last section to be reinstated. Focusing on the sections that will generate income first seems sensible.

I wish them well.

 

If just 2% of those 3 million visitors could be marketed onto the trains, that's 60K people a year. How many does the CVR currently attract?

Who cares about the vast majority, when you know there's a steam-minded minority already out there? What you need is a convenient mainline connection and/or ample park & ride facilities. Perhaps the Swanage Railway could say what percentage of their trade comes through Norden P&R.

Even most people who accept climate change as a fact haven't really thought through the future implications for transport. Governments are going to have to find more and more ways of discouraging driving. Any railway that provides an affordable alternative to coming all the way by car (basically, an interchange with NR) will have a competitive advantage for journeys originating less than 60 miles away. The Bluebell knows this and is racing to finish East Grinstead. The GWR is lobbying hard to extend to Honeybourne, the SR to Wareham, etc etc. Even the Weardale Railway looks like it's "coming through on the (racecourse) rails" to become an accessible attraction.

Good luck to the CVR and their partners, I say. Kudos to the plc for recognising common interests.