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MK1's coaches vs other stock

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by paulhitch, Jul 26, 2017.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Indeed not, although the L.B.S.C.R., not normally noted for progressive C&W designs, did achieve this.

    I gather the G.W.R., for instance, never achieved slam door locks. If there were other such, perhaps you are able to advise please?

    Paul H
     
  2. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    Not true, the GWR had them very early on and a good many of their coaches were so equipped (The SVRs 9103 being an example of this) however they deemed it cheaper to simply have extra platform staff, thereby reducing the chance of a door going un-noticed rather than pay to fit the mechanisms to all of their coaches.
    Having said all that, I agree, there is a lot of Merit on pre-1948 and pre-1923 stock.
     
  3. Southernman99

    Southernman99 Member Friend

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    As I understand it and M Haynes of the GW SVRA will no doubt put me right at some point. Collet Bow enders have slam locks but as Olly says the GW thought it to be cheaper to keep their own snap lock as it only has 1 moving part and 3 springs. The Ocean stock did have slam locks due to gauging. One of our own, 9627, has a wide body and the lock handles recessed into the door due the wide waist of the body.
    An issue with the snap lock is people tend to slam the door and eventually it damages the door post to the point of splitting at the solebar level.
    There is alot to be said about a dual acting slam lock (mk1) when it acts upon the safety catch. Its a derivitave of the LNER lock which has a seperate safety catch infront of the strike plate where as a Mk1 strike plate has the safety catch on the same plate as the bolt hole. Ive found it rare for a Mk1 lock to fail over a sprung snap lock as the spring can be too loose and prevent the lock "snapping" shut.

    Mark 1s have their advantages/ disadvantages. One for guards is the light switch is in the guards compartment where as the GWR thought their guards need more excersise and almost at random put the light switch at either end of the coach or somtimes within the guards compartment.
    We are currently rebuilding a CK which needed all the lower 18 inches of the end panelling removing to reveal any rust issues in the crash pillars which have duly been cut out and new sections welded back in. The bodyside has the lower panel replaced on one side with the ali window frames removed and rebedded. If anybody remembers a very bedraggled maroon CK at Arley for about 5 years around the 07 floods. This is the one.
     
  4. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That explains therefore, why the Hawkesworth carriage I encountered did not have slam locks which led the railway concerned to produce a leaflet for travellers explaining how to deal with the doors. "Huh" I thought at the time, goes along with low temperature superheat and lower quadrant signals!

    PH (who awaits indignant harrumph from points west)
     
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  5. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Modern cars being dull and lacking any character was a sentiment expressed in the 1953 film "Genevieve" (wasn't Dinah Sheridan a hottie btw). At the same time the railway preservation movement said pretty much the same thing about BR standard locomotives and Mk1 stock. Time and nostalgia make classics of everything.
     
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  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    IMHO in 1953, people would be right about Mk.1s and (partly) wrong about the locomotives.

    Genevieve's big sister, the so-called "Flying 15" Darracq, would probably see off a 1953 Ford Popular for that matter!

    PH
     
  7. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Might have struggled a bit with a "bland, characterless" '53 C type Jag, though!
     
  8. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly which railway you mean. Low temperature superheat was because the local coal that the GW had access to didn't require anything more. As for lower quadrant signals, are you referring to those on the Midland, the great northern, and didn't one of the lines north of the border have them too?
     
  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Two obvious points here.
    A. Both the Midland and the Great Northern, together with other lower quadrant signal users ceased to exist in 1923.
    B. In the fraught discussion as to who actually owns 2-6-2T No.4160, people who have handled her observe how much livelier and more economical she is than her sisters. This is attributed to her larger superheater. Evidently someone at Swindon got the message at the eleventh hour. Where the fuel is sourced from is a a long standing hare.

    (By the way, can I apologise for my contribution to thread drift)

    PH
     
  10. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    agreed, however their signals remained in place, the reason the GWR persisted in their use is simple, if your men are familiar with them, and they work perfectly safely, why change them.
    As for the super heater issue, the answer is again simple, nationalisation, in GWR days the GWR had a near monopoly on Welsh steam coal, there was no need for a higher degree of super heat, however, once the railways were nationalised, there was a degree of "Any loco should be able to burn anything" meaning that the higher degree of superheat was more useful.
     
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  11. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Both, I fear, are classic examples of "we've always done it this way".This means that change when it comes, as it tends to, is that more painful.

    With A.W.S. the G.W. did have something to commend, even if it was implicated in the Norton Fitzwarren smash. As far as coal was concerned it mattered little whether the fuel was Ogilvie cobbles or something better suited to a power station. Higher superheat enabled more effort to be extracted from each ton burned.

    PH
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    When considering Riddles' work to allow steam production with any old rubbish, I sometimed wonder whether the GWRs decades of supplies of coal of consistently high quality led to some degree of complacency in design after Churchward's considerable input.
     
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  13. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I would agree with that
     
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  14. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Oh, joy. @paulhitch has found the 'regurgitate' button on his ivory keyboard again!

    I though this thread was about Mk 1's and other stock? :confused:
     
  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Has there ever been a thread on NP (or anywhere else) with more than a dozen replies where there hasn't been thread drift?
    :Resistanceisfutile:
     
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  16. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

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    Totally agree, but it's not like his revolving door of pet topics hasn't popped out his dislike of Swindon products before! ;)
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Just attempting to balance things up a bit. The G.W.R. deserves real credit for its work on diesel railcars for instance.

    PH
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Indeed. The GWR/AEC railcars were the progenitors of mechanically near identical fleets supplied by AEC to the CIE and GNRI just after WWII. These had a similar operating lifespan to the pre-war GW examples, with a few lasting well into the 80s. Some of the CIE units passed their last years in traffic converted to hauled stock. Only one (AFAIK) survives in pretty derelict condition, former railcar driving trailer, at the Downpatrick and County Down Rly.

    If imitation truly is the sincerest form of flattery, the GW concept was clearly a sound one. [\End of Drift]
     
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