Manxman

When was this image taken and do you have any more to share?

Thanks

 

Gents,
Having the asbestos taken out is, ironically, a step in the right direction from the point of view of saving this fine example of heritage. Asbestos = a problem no matter what you're doing with the ship and seeing it go is good - in actual fact, it markedly IMPROVES things.
I'm in the midst of a career change here, but I fervently hope that those who know more about Manxman and have been actively involved in the past will see this as a step and put aside differences for the cause of saving the ship for future generations. In an area like Liverpool with its history, it has to be an icon, surely?!
And things are changing remember, with the economy. Things do change - you can't quite see as far as you once could so if you look for the opportunity, hard, and go at it with some grit, then you may have a reward to reap.

 

OK- the way forward is quite easy then, and everyone who was trying before was a befuddled fool..............

Better people than me have tried for years to marry together Liverpool City Council, Wirral Borough, Museums and Galleries on Merseyside and Peel Holdings and no-one has bitten

I regard the abstract vision of a re-juvenated Manxman as a centrepiece to Wirral Waters as a restaurant / hotel / conference venue as a jewel beyond price - but can John Whittaker's money grubbing development surveyors - oh no!!! Beats me - if I - as one of their ilk can see it - but there you go. There again - their new Chinese friends are hardly known for liking heritage in their new developments, so why should Bidston Dock be different??

Peter Elson of the Liverpool Post and Echo surfaced earlier this year as a saviour - since then - nothing. Of course - with the asbestos stripped Manxman is much more feasible, but where are the people who haven't yet been tapped up and refused???

If a consortium surfaces, I will both welcome it and join it with open arms - but it will have to be based on business like and feasible proposals - like the ones that have already failed were.

 

Hi TBird,
No-one ever said things like this were easy, and the people who have tried this before reached a gap they couldn't figure out how to jump - back then. Now if perchance a firm goes bust, changes hands or simply ousts the CEO, then you can have a very different landscape. If the Irish can do it with the Cill Airne
http://www.mvcillairne.com/
and the Dutch can do it with the Rotterdam - every ounce of 40,000 tons of her - asbestos still in Engine Room which is accessible to the general public
http://www.opderotterdam.nl/
why would it not be possible to arrange something like it with the venerable Manxman?
The truth is, it's easy, and lazy to adopt the defeatist approach and wallow in frustration.
Now I am quite certain it is a matter of finding the combination of circumstances and then it would be possible.
So really, looking at the above sucessful outcomes you can't in all honesty tell me it's impossible, can you?!
P_R

 

I didn't say it was impossible.

I said the required combination of people and companies who need to be brought together to achieve a result have already been contacted - repeatedly - and have run away everytime.

So don't you dare call anyone lazy until you have been there, done that, and got the t-shirt - as they have.

If you think you have the political and financial clout to do it - away you go - but you will need to prove your calibre to carry anyone with you. That's the inescapable and already experienced fact - and that was pre slump and cut backs.

Have you looked at the Rotterdam's finances - the only reason she was finished was because so much had been spent on the way. If they had known the real difficulties and cost overruns she would never have been done. As for asbestos - its only dangerous when exposed - despite all the hysteria. Provided the proper measures are taken removal is safe - if expensive, as is final disposal

 

TBird,
I am saying that her current condition is somewhat improved. As for the people that have done so much already I salute them and respect their hard efforts without reservation. I am also saying that it is easier to adopt a stance of dismissal because attempts thus far have not achieved the result does not mean it cannot be done. As long as the gas axe is at bay and there are shining examples of what can be achieved then that day may well come.

There is no doubt in my mind that strenuous efforts have been made. I understand that the Manxman Steamship Company was dissolved - which is a step back - but there may have been understandable reasons for that. Now since that time the world has changed and might well change too for 'John Whittaker's money grubbing development surveyors'. So would we agree in commending the efforts of the past and acknowledge that in these changing times new opportunities can arise and old problems can and might diminish?

What would you have to say about the projects I mentioned earlier?

 

They are chalk and cheese, and both are "children of the boom years"

No-one in the Irish economy today would propose something like that in the present maelstrom, unique and appealing though it is. Think of the Tuxedos, The Westward Ho and even the Balmoral. They are all examples no longer with us in that role, as ships need maintenance and it is only the 1985 syndicate purchase that saved the Bal and her heritage operation with Wavex and lottery funding that sees her in her present condition.

The Rotterdam,many times that size, is a very, very, lucky survivor which went so far over budget, and took so long to refurbish, that she will almost certainly be the last ever destination liner attempted. She only opened in February so we haven't even had a full year of trading yet from which to assess her chances. She is -and looks - magnificent - but she has yet to prove she can survive.

I firmly believe that the Manxman concept at 3,000 tons could be sold to someone developing something like Lodon's inner docklands or even Wirral waters - but it has been tried and rejected with all the current players and that is why I am completely dispassionate about newcomers brimfull of enthusiasm and self belief.

Its been tried, and tried, and tried, before and the economy was in far better condition then.

I regularly meet and work with those who were on the team - they know what they went through and how they were let down. Unless you have a Euromillions winner, a Waterman or a Hoskins ready to talk the Whittaker language there is little or no hope.

Sorry to be a realist - but any other start point is simply delusional

 

Sad thing is once she is gone (and lets face it thats not far away) a viable plan will come to fruition.

All extremely sad and upsetting.

Well done to all those who have tried so damn hard to save her though.

Stan

 

Has some new information emerged ?

 

Hello Stan,
I was just beginning to look forward to Christmas when, like a towering cumulonimbus you show up to make our recession afflicted corner of the planet just that bit darker and gloomier.
Do you ever read your own words Stan? This is a preservation forum - not a waiting-for-the-end forum. You're worse than any fate the venerable Manxman could ever have. You're like one of those vultures circling around, waiting, and you seem to be looking forward to the pickings. If you had any real admiration for what others have done to keep the old girl going then you'd make the best personal contribution that you can summon up - which is swear a vow of silence.
Have you ever considering blogging for one of the yards on Ghadani Beach? You'd be in your element.
P_R

 

Calm down, I don't think Stan wants anything other than Manxman to be saved for future generations. Stan is, however, being realistic. The Manxman is being stripped of asbestos with the intention of scrapping her, we should count ourselves lucky that she hasn't been "stripped of asbestos" in the same way that HMS Stalker was earlier this year. Optimism is key for any movement, 6024 is proof of this it was a true wreck restored to perfect condition, however there is a point where realism has to kick in. The efforts to save manxman have found the money, big names etc etc all of which would have worked for railway preservation, however, inspite of their success of getting these key points they haven't got the ship and most likely won't ever.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I DO want Manxman SAVED, but the writing is on the wall and its serious.

m0rris

 

Allright M0rris,
I do accept what you're saying, really I do. Knowing there has been proper businesslike plans ready with committed people behind it - it just upsets me that there is probably a few people holding the key to her survival who just won't give the nod for whatever self-centered reasons they have. And it also does make me quite ill when a person or organisation commits to a plan that will benefit local society in general, only to slither out at the last minute.
To come on this forum and pipe the last salute bothers me as it's a purely defeatist approach - and yes, I know the chips are down, but that is not often, but usually the case in any worthwhile struggle.
How much would it cost to buy Manxman? £1, and I'd be responsible for towing it out of Pallion I suppose?!
(And no, I don't have the money to buy her but if I won the lotto - believe me, I have ideas on what I'd like to do!)

 

I take offence at your childish post as I have been supporter of Manxman from day one (In fact I was number 3 of the friends of the Manxman). I have also helped raised funds for this group to help save her as I have many other steam ships.

The facts are simple, Manxman is on borrowed time... and she is shagged. Very sad but thats the facts.

No go away and grow up.

Stan

 

Easy guys ! We are all adults here (hopefully), so a slanging match serves no useful purpose and certainly does not enhance the discussion.

 

Stan,
I can really understand your frustration at promises made and not kept but as you have indicated here before there is a workable plan - if a suitable investor could be found. That alone is worth just keeping ones head up. If time is short all the more reason to keep the faith. Things can and they do change and knowing the way things tend to go bang with zero notice can change the field quite dramatically in these times. Ask any resident of Iceland! I'm not putting a veneer on things - simply saying can change and for the better.

P_R

 

We can only hope.... just as we did that salvation would come for Lincoln Castle.

I dearly want Manxman to be saved and I have to say it hurts me to know what predicatament she is in as I really feel for that old girl.

Lets hope 2011 brings the good news we all so desperately want to hear.

Stan

 

Stan
Sadly,short of telephoning the owners,I have not been able to find out if the scrapping of Manxman has actually started-what I do know is that almost certainly it is going to happen, with Strathclyde University engaged to study its 'recycling'. Yes,as I've said before the money is available for this 'study' from a European Quango -and it's a tidy sum of loot.
I have now put all my energy into 'Dover'-the very last purpose built steam turbine car ferry-things are moving. The Dover Steamship Company will be making an announcement in the new year.

 

Thanks for the info Austerity.

Please keep us all posted re "Dover".

Stan

 

Anybody heard anything about the Manxman, its been a month now since the last posting and although they say no news is good news, the silence worries me. If we are to lose this wonderful vessel, then please make it quick, i have too many wonderful memories of her and her sadly departed sisters and would hate a slow lingering death.

 

I have been lead to beleive that scrapping has begun but there are no real substantiated reports. I fear we will only know once she has gone.

Still hoping that somehow she is saved.

Stan