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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’m pretty sure we’ve seen examples of heritage organisations trying to manipulate the outcomes of votes using traditional means, so I wouldn’t be so quick as to rule out the possibility of someone trying to do the same thing electronically. On some railways I expect there’s even a bit of a problem with votes not being sufficiently anonymised – I’d imagine some folk in Somerset would be somewhat wary about others knowing how they were voting on any number of topics, not to mention the risk of votes disappearing if they come from the ‘wrong’ people…

    Heritage railways don’t have the technical wherewithal to create secure platforms of their own – not least, as @Jamessquared says the first main problem is proving a voter is who they say they are. There are ID tools available, like Yoti , which can do part of the job, but without some sort of integration with secure, anonymised voting, you’re still only part the way there.

    There’s a reason we still have a slightly clunky voting system for elections, and as we’ve seen this year, changing that without excluding people is hard.

    Simon
     
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  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    It is, but that doesn't mean the effort shouldn't be made. As a Bluebell member, I long felt disenfranchised by a voting system that required me to attend a school hall in Sussex if I wanted just to cast a vote on an issue. And, returning to the L&B, the voting was not anonymous - and I very much doubt that this affected turnout despite the contentiousness of some aspects of discussion.

    However, it might not be a bad idea if HRA were to consider how inclusion and security might be implemented more widely, bridging the gap between boards and members of organisations.
     
  3. DaveE

    DaveE Member

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    Best to leave as is I think.
    The only thing I would do is perhaps enable a way for a link to a PDF format of the forms which can be sent by the secretaries in the event of delayed or non receipt of forms due to postal problems, or for those overseas by prior arrangement.
     
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  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's a question of costs and benefits - I'm with @goldfish about voting systems in general, but a quick check last night showed me that there are subscription based services that would be both affordable and practical. And where members are willing to accept papers by email rather than post, adoption of hybrid voting may actually make elections cheaper to run.

    On your specific point about "link to a PDF format", I understand your thinking - but that is precisely where security comes in. If anyone can access them, how can you be sure that "Joe Bloggs" is actually "Joe Bloggs"?
     
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  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    A few years ago at least one election in Somerset was influenced (though to exactly what extent is unknowable) by the incumbent trustees' choice of the information to be sent out to members. What will happen with the forthcoming re-run of the L&B Trust's election?

    Apropos voting by email: what's wrong with a PDF voting form on the website, to be filled in with each member's name and membership number, scanned and emailed in? A bogus vote would be recognisable by a nonexistent or duplicated membership number. It can't be anonymous, but nor is the present system. It is open to abuse if some votes are "accidentally" lost or remote members assign their proxies to the Chairman, but in those respects it is again no worse than the present system.
     
  6. DaveE

    DaveE Member

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    The link is only sent via email on request to the email address registered in the membership database, and for specific reasons. Once the form is completed and returned it can be cross referenced via membership number to ensure all is present and correct and only one form has been received.
    It can be done via an sql database as web based, or maybe an excel file.
     
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  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Possibly - but why not use one of the commercial systems available, and save the organisation the time, cost and hassle of setting up it's own system>
     
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  8. DaveE

    DaveE Member

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    Just taken a look out there for source code on PHP/SQL poll systems and there are lots out there, some are free to use as well.
    I would have a go at firing an Apache server up at home (I have a symmetric 1gb fibre connection) and giving it a trial with a few people but by the gods my coding is rusty now and so out of touch with html and mobile compliance I would probably make a right pigs ear of it :D
     
  9. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    2005 called, it wants its web development pipeline back… ;)

    Simon
     
  10. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I expect Chat GPT could write the code for you.
     
  11. DaveE

    DaveE Member

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    Like I said, out of touch lol
     
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  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    :eek:
     
  13. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    It’s the ‘server at home’ but that gives the game away…

    I’m with @35B though that these days the best and most sustainable approach is to rely on cheap commodity SaaS solutions for things like this. No need to worry about string and tin, or who maintains it when you lose interest, and you can piggyback on the experience of lots of other people.

    For fun, I also asked ChatGPT for its thoughts…

    Code:
    How would you set up an online voting system for shareholders in a small voluntary organisation
    ChatGPT
    Setting up an online voting system for shareholders in a small voluntary organization involves several steps. Here's a general outline of the process:
    
    1. Determine Legal and Regulatory Requirements: Research and understand any legal or regulatory requirements related to voting processes for shareholders in your jurisdiction. This may include reviewing the organization's bylaws or governing documents.
    
    2. Choose an Online Voting Platform: Select a reliable and secure online voting platform that aligns with your organization's needs and budget. Look for platforms that offer features such as user authentication, encryption, audit trails, and result tabulation.
    
    3. Establish Eligibility Criteria: Define the eligibility criteria for shareholders to participate in the voting process. This may include verifying their membership or ownership status within the organization.
    
    4. Create a Registered User Database: Develop a database of registered users that includes the necessary shareholder information, such as names, email addresses, and unique identification numbers. Ensure the privacy and security of this database.
    
    5. User Authentication: Implement a secure user authentication process to ensure that only eligible shareholders can access the online voting system. This may involve using unique login credentials, two-factor authentication, or other verification methods.
    
    6. Design Ballots: Create the online ballots that shareholders will use to cast their votes. Clearly present the options and provide any necessary explanations or supporting materials. Ensure that the ballot design is user-friendly and accessible.
    
    7. Test the System: Perform thorough testing of the online voting system to identify and resolve any technical issues or vulnerabilities. Conduct pilot tests with a small group of shareholders to ensure a smooth and reliable experience.
    
    8. Communicate and Educate Shareholders: Inform shareholders about the upcoming online voting process through multiple communication channels, such as emails, newsletters, or the organization's website. Provide clear instructions on how to access and use the online voting system.
    
    9. Monitor the Voting Process: Monitor the online voting process to ensure its integrity and security. Regularly check for any irregularities or attempts to manipulate the system. Consider appointing independent observers or an election committee to oversee the process.
    
    10. Tabulate and Announce Results: Once the voting period has ended, securely tabulate the votes using the online system's built-in features. Verify the results and announce them to the shareholders in a transparent manner. Consider providing an audit trail or summary report if required.
    
    11. Evaluate and Improve: After the voting process is complete, evaluate the effectiveness of the online voting system and gather feedback from shareholders. Identify areas for improvement and make necessary adjustments for future voting processes.
    
    Remember, it's essential to consult legal professionals or experts familiar with your jurisdiction's laws to ensure compliance and address any specific requirements for shareholder voting in your organization.
    
     
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  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I expect Chat GPT is writing half the forum posts …

    (“Chat GPT - give me a slightly long-winded and carefully-worded post about a contentious issue in the style of @Jamessquared that sounds good but when you boil it down is basically an exercise in careful fence-sitting …”)

    Tom
     
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  15. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    You should see what it does when you ask it to argue for Brexit in the style of @eightpot…
     
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  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'd like to see what would come out if it was told to argue for Brexit in the style of @goldfish, or against Brexit in the style of @Eightpot.
     
  17. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    Yes, it probably could, but that facility is not available on the current website, and no longer maintained on the 'archive' pages.
     
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  18. The Terminator

    The Terminator New Member

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    As you say 35B, there are a number of services out there providing a myriad of online, paper-based and hybrid voting systems. They appear to fall into two categories, those that will act as your agent eg UK Engage, undertaking all aspects of the balloting process and stand-alone software systems providers like Choice voting. I've no idea what the former would cost but the latter for a 3000 membership-based organisation is a mere £300.00!
     
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  19. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    ...or an explanation for the (not really a) failure of Brexit written in the style of a certain Charity's Chairman...:)
     
  20. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    That sounds like a bargain when you consider in last year's trust accounts the hash up /reissue of paperwork for Chris Duffell's inclusion was listed at around £6k and no doubt Anne's will be similar (if she's not found guilty of treason and barred beforehand)
     

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