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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    If there is no loop or siding, then what is the 'other road'?
     
  2. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    As on the Isle of Wight - probably not acceptable in this day and age.
     
  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just a platform road and additional loco stub ... Anyway, it was whimsy by today's standards, I think you are treating it with far too much consideration!

    Tom
     
  4. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Quite a lot of interesting - and no doubt well-meant - suggestions about how to operate PE.

    I would like to assure all fellow contributors that all the different proposals mentioned above - and a few other more radical 'thinking outside of the box' type ideas - were considered by those of us with an involvement in the design for Phase 2A operation / signalling. However all that we were able to do was to offer suggestions and assessments for consideration by the relevant Trustees - the actual decision as to what plan to adopt and why rests with them.
     
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  5. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    The trouble is that you have to move to buy when the property is available. I have not visited the pub so can only guess how sucessful it is. In my area some of the Pubs seem to be doing very well but some not so well. In our village one of the Pubs was sold during the pandemic and doesn't seem to be doing as well as before. The owners of the other Pub have decided to retire and have been unable to sell.
    As I understand it the Old Station House Inn was/is very popular - given the number of objections from its customers to the planning application. If this is still the case then keeping the existing customer base is key to its success. It is important to keep investors informed however.
     
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  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I know that this was not entirely serious. However it does prompt me to wonder what exactly is the difference between a train with a loco at the front running towards a buffer stop and the same with no loco but a driver at the front controlling a brake (perhaps with a brake pump as well as a valve, to avoid coming to a stop too soon). Isn't the latter exactly what was done with push-pull sets and still is with DVTs?
     
  7. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    Quite. And if there were room for a spur+trap 'beyond the platform', then you would be able to accommodate a proper run-round anyway.[/QUOTE]

    Nope. That's not true and if it were then there are countless situations up and down the country that are unsafe by this thinking. It is really very straightforward to contrive a system of rules and operating methods that are safe and be more than satisfactory for the purpose.
    I picked up in a post just above that a sector plate is envisaged, not a turntable. If that is so then it is more understandable I think. Though still overcomplicated unless there is expected to be a significant period when this serves as a terminal, which I thought it was not.
    I find the thread overall an interesting insight into the mindset of the organisation.
     
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  8. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Merely as a customer, the fate of pubs post-pandemic seems very varied. This week I had lunch in one mid-week which seemed almost as busy as always. The week before I had lunch in another one only a few miles away, and once just as popular as the other, and yet for the first hour I was the only customer there other than a drinker at the bar. In part, from my experience, I suspect that part of the problem is the Catch-22 type situation that - because of the drop in trade (not helped by the current economic crisis) - many pubs have severely reduced their opening hours/days in an attempt to manage their costs for heating/lighting/staffing etc,with the result that on their 'closed' days potential customers go elsewhere and then perhaps never bother to come back again.
     
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  9. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Most push-pull sets had linkages so that the driver could control the Regulator, Reverser and Brake. Evidentally the Southern used compressed air to work the controls. However there was a maximum of two coaches ahead. I think that a lot of work would be needed to set this up and satisfy ORR that it was safe.
     
  10. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    Being strictly accurate the ORR's approval is neither sought nor given. The railway company is responsible for ensuring that a safe method of operation is in force. This provides a degree of flexibility that hasn't always been the case in the past and permits the use of new technologies.
     
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  11. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    That's what I was thinking, Tom. At the other end of the Kingdom it worked perfectly well at Killin until closure in 1965. Yes passengers would have to de-train but if you have a pub there you are giving them a captive clientele;).

    Peter
     
  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    At Killin the gravity shunt (because this is what we are talking about) was controlled by the guard using only his hand brake. Mind you he did have a mile or so beyond the station towards Loch Tay to bring the train to a stand. Thats a bit more wriggle room than we are talking about here.

    Peter
     
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  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    But by the time they've walked to the Fox&Goose for a pint and back the train will have gone ! :)
     
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  14. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    True...in which case one might ask what purpose is served now by the ORR anyway ? Yet they have power to step in and stop things if necessary, as happened at Shillingstone AIUI.
     
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  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Nope. That's not true and if it were then there are countless situations up and down the country that are unsafe by this thinking. It is really very straightforward to contrive a system of rules and operating methods that are safe and be more than satisfactory for the purpose.
    I picked up in a post just above that a sector plate is envisaged, not a turntable. If that is so then it is more understandable I think. Though still overcomplicated unless there is expected to be a significant period when this serves as a terminal, which I thought it was not.
    I find the thread overall an interesting insight into the mindset of the organisation.[/QUOTE]
    The proposal put forward by 21B is perfectly acceptable and workable. In fact in essence it is exactly what existed at Whitby until platform 2 was installed and, if you ignore the fact that a loop is now available, still exists. The single line section stops at the platform end and the platform line is platform permissive, meaning you can have a loco ( or dmu at Whitby) stabled in the platform. The protection is simply a stop board that says you can’t proceed without the token. Granted there is now TPWS but that provides no physical protection. The ground frame is locked by the token and the train comes to a halt and the fireman/whoever sets the road for the siding for the train loco to proceed into it. It’s basic, simple and doable
     
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  16. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    The ORR holds the industry to account under the terms of relevant legislation. They provide guidance in general terms. They inspect and ensure that railways are operating in accordance with their risk assessments and methods of operation. The first rule of running a railway is to do what you say you do. The second rule is to ensure that what you do has been appropriately risk assessed, tales account of legislation and guidance and any local learning in that order.

    The ORR act as a policing force if the company doesn't follow it's method of operation they also have powers similar to the HSE to investigate and prosecute breaches of legislation.
     
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  17. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Several s.g. lines have safely propelled a passenger train with the guard in the leading vehicle with a brake valve for use in an emergency. IIRC Llangollen used such a system between Corwen East and Carrog where the loco. ran round its train. Surely a train could similarly, and safely, be propelled from Parracombe back to the present terminus where a loop exists?
    Ray.
     
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  18. mgp

    mgp New Member

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    I have just realised, things have moved on since the leaflet which @biermaster referred to above was printed.

    That leaflet suggested opening the home page of the L&B website https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/ and looking for a link labelled 'Become an L&B funder'.

    Nowadays one actually needs to look for the far more explicit message 'Support the acquisition of the Old Station House Inn' and then click to open that underlying link

    One then has to 'register interest' and read the details which are then displayed. This somewhat tortuous route was required in order to satisfy the Financial Conduct Authority.

    It is essential that potential investors do fully appreciate the risk they are taking before they decide to invest in a pub / restaurant business.

    Mike
     
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  19. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The FfR operated the Gelliwiog Shuttle (Dduallt, up the spiral and back) during the mid 1970's, with carriage 110 adapted as a driving trailer. The Corris similarly operated P-P between Corris and Maespoeth from the restart of passenger services (2002) until the start of this season ....

    ..... and that's just the Welsh NG stuff!
     
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  20. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    My understanding is that it is intended to use the L & B turntable as a sector plate. So there will not be the necessity to excavate a 30ft hole (only a 40 degree sector) Chris Duffell asked me for scans of my drawings and photographs of it made in the 70s at New Romney which were transcribed in November 2002 and published without my permission in someone elses name with the joint copyright notice removed in the book 'Measured and Drawn'. The request was towards preparing engineering drawings preparatory to refurbishing it and replacing the parts that were inadvertently scrapped or had deteriorated beyond reuse.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
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