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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    I think its about time the Trust and L&B Blackmoor plc explain to the trust members exactly how they plan to finance this project,what monies are to be used by the Trust to support this project and exactly what the financial risks could be before any contracts are signed, is the trust going to be tied into this for lets say the next 25 years or so,is there any risk for the trust ect,is the pub going to be purchased on vacant possession or will there be a tenant paying minimal rent instead of a rent at the going rate, once signed sealed and delivered the railway will be tied into what the trust have decided off their own backs and lets also not forget the 2 directors of the Blackmoor company are the same very 2 people that hold significant positions within the trust itself, its about time every little detail was laid out before us after all if things start to go wrong and certain people disappear what mess are they going to leave behind, i find it incredible that hardly anyone has questioned any decision making over the last 5 years at the very least
     
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  2. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    i too have been told the same thing if this refers to some red lines,ive also seen one red line cock up on a map and apparently there are 3, its not like it doesn't stand out either
     
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  3. lynbarn

    lynbarn Member

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    I am very concerned about all of this, I am hoping to get to the forum meeting in November, but so far no one has got back to me about the date, that alone makes me suspicious of what is going on in Devon.

    I guess it is time to hold up my hands and say the reason I haven't been to Devon in five years are due to personal reasons, and like a lot of members though that those in charge could be trusted, now I am not quite so sure.

    Also is anyone a member of the 762club on here? I am just wonder if anyone else has been to that groups AGM or have they not held one in this time, as far as I am concerned I have neither received either a financial statement or notification of an AGM, which as I understand it they should be doing, knowing the problems they had in the first place with the 762club you would expect them to be whiter and white, again I think it is time for a change in that management as well, if only they held an AGM to so an election could take place.
     
  4. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

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    For the L&B Blackmoor to have a commercial mortgage agreed, means they must have a viable business plan. Otherwise the mortgage would be refused. Therefore the option of having a tenant not paying a commercial rent (as speculated above) is not an option. My understanding is that the premises will be operated directly and generate enough profit to pay the mortgage. So what happens if the business fails? OK in that situation the shareholders lose everything first. After that the premises etc are sold and debtors paid, if there remains a shortfall then any charges/guarantees are taken up - in practice this can be very difficult and usually a negotiation takes place. However as the land would remain intact, buildings insured, it is difficult to see how it would get to that stage. For my part, I have confidence that it is a viable plan to operate the inn with adjoining railway of course, to make a very attractive destination for people.
     
  5. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    That all sounds like a case of don't want to rather than anything else. All the problems you've listed have been solved several times, and present a lower risk than failing to stop when the TT is set wrong, or contriving an interlocking to prevent that. A TT seems by inspection to be a very complex and expensive solution.
     
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  6. Michael B

    Michael B New Member

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    The land at the side has been owned since at least 1908 when Rooks Gate Cottage was purchased (and demolished in the 20s or 30s after becoming unfit for habitation) It seems that the Linhay north of it may have been included in the original purchase in 1896, although why more than just the trackbed would have been purchased originally is a puzzle. The problem with space appears to be the land at the southern end, presumably owned by an objector or a person who does not wish to sell.
     
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  7. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Given the current situation attempting to pay for the purchase by running the resturant/pub seems a brave venture

    https://www.theguardian.com/food/20...-the-cost-of-living-crisis-how-will-they-cope

    Thats before you have all the problems of managing it or managing the manager
     
  8. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    If there is room for a run round loop there is room for a siding for a loco. It doesn't need to accommodate the train.
     
  9. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Sadly it's not as simple as that.

    For example, assume that the Up train runs up to the buffers and stops, then the 'spare' engine comes out of the siding and attaches to the WB end. Given that it would be a diesel and not another steam engine, you can't just swop engines, so the train is hauled out past the bridge, the train engine comes off and shunts into the siding, then spare engine propels the stock back into the platform, the train engine comes out and runs under the bridge towards WB, the spare engine then shunts into the siding and the train engine runs back onto the stock. Fine, but......with no engine at the Barney end for at least part of the move on a 1-in-100 down gradient and stock being propelled, all passengers would probably have to be detained first and then re-boarded afterwards. Not everyone might want to get off. Believe me, there was a lot of discussion about variations on this idea.

    >>>...present a lower risk than failing to stop when the TT is set wrong, or contriving an interlocking to prevent that.

    Actually, that was one of the simplest things to sort out!
     
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  10. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Exactly owned by someone who doesn't want to sell and is a very vocal objector.
     
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  11. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    This all points to either the current proposal, or Top and Tailing every train - and I can't see the latter being very economic, especially if they're both steam.
     
  12. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    ...which is why that idea 'hit the buffers' at an early stage AFAIK :)
     
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  13. ross

    ross Member

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    Or, Train arrives Parracombe. Train reverses past siding entrance, train engine uncouples, moves forward past siding. Shunt engine emerges from siding and couples to train at Parracombe end. Train engine takes the siding, for shunt loco to pull train back to Parracombe platform. Train engine leaves siding, regains train at Parracombe. Uncouple shunt engine, train engine takes train back to Woody Bay. Shunt loco returns to siding.
    Still a pain in the bum, but it would keep something heavy on the Barnstaple end preventing runaway.
     
  14. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    Not convinced. My assumption is that this is the terminus for 5 years or less

    Train arrives at stop board short of station. Loco detaches and runs to siding. Shunt engine waiting at buffer stops of platform runs to train, couples on and pulls train into station. Train engine comes out of siding and onto train. Easy even with a brake test

    Alternatively as this is the terminus detrain. Maybe not everyone will want to get out, but most will anyway, and that only leaves a few stragglers

    I grant you that the operation is more of a pain than a run round, but so is building a turntable and then removing it.

    It doesn't bother me either way. Not my problem as they say, but so far it's an unconvincing argument so far as I am concerned. If this is something objectors have their knickers in a twist about, give it up. There are viable alternatives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
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  15. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    If we assume the siding is operated by an in-section ground frame unlocked by the staff (or whatever the L&B uses), this requires the departing train to stop, and someone to walk back with the staff to facilitate the shunt move. Possible, but a right old faff. Otherwise, you need a signal box, and someone to man it.


    This is better but there needs to be some physical means of preventing the shunt loco from moving otherwise it could enter an occupied section. You’d probably have to have a spur beyond the platform fitted with a trap point or at least a derailer.

    Personally, I think the sector table (it isn’t a turntable unless it goes right round) is a perfectly viable option. Thinking from a purely technical perspective.

    Will it ever get built anyway? Isn’t the primary objective to start building it (to secure planning) rather than to finish?
     
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  16. Snail368

    Snail368 New Member

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    starting a business in bad times may well be challenging, however they are often more successful long term then businesses started in good times, as harder choices have to be built in to the initial business plan. Not saying it will be easy!
     
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  17. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    [QUOTE="pmh_74, post: 2766176, member: 4214"This is better but there needs to be some physical means of preventing the shunt loco from moving otherwise it could enter an occupied section. You’d probably have to have a spur beyond the platform fitted with a trap point or at least a derailer....[/QUOTE]
    Quite. And if there were room for a spur+trap 'beyond the platform', then you would be able to accommodate a proper run-round anyway.
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Surely you don’t need a second engine or an additional siding … - train arrives, passengers detrain, you propel the train back up the slope, loco uncouples and runs into the other road, carriages are then gravitated back into the departure platform, loco completes run round ready for departure. Job done :)

    (Had the original railway terminated there, quite likely would have been done that way - what could be more realistic!)

    Tom
     
  19. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

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    fit out a carriage with a driving end and do push-pull.
     
  20. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    I must admit i do like your optimism, i am aware of an investor who has asked for a copy of the business plan and other financial documentation and as of last week nothing has been forthcoming, at this present moment the pub business is a very risky move, a morgage of £1 mil has a repayment of approx £923 per week,working on information i have been given the turnover for that payment alone would be somewhere in the region of £2700 per week and thats without staff/electric/gas/water /rates, the only railway the pub will see in many years is a run down to wistlandpound, so that will be 2 railways to run when they are struggling to get enough volunteers to staff woody bay alone, if you are an investor in Blackmoor plc or even a member of the railway i would seriously suggest you all start asking serious questions,just reading and believing what is stated in the newsletter really isnt enough,that little pamphlet packs more spin than Westminster
     
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