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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    Was Mrs's T's visit to York when she unveiled the plaque celebrating the Electrification?
     
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  2. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    I think so - we were going to York when we travelled on the same train as her.
     
  3. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Getting back to Parracombe...:)

    After an Up train has arrived at PE the loco will need to run-round its stock. Regardless of whether you have a TT or just a normal point spur, there will be a period therefore during which the carriages will be stood at the platform with no engine attached. Given that the line at that location was on a 1-in-100 down to Blackmoor, then AIUI the ORR would not normally sanction such an arrangement. Unless you extensively re-grade the line to ease the gradient, or top-and-tail the trains, how can it be operated other than by getting a derogation from the ORR? I've not seen or heard anything yet to suggest that the L&BR have investigated the issue and found a solution, yet this is the sort of thing which I would have expected to have been explained 'up front' in order to dispel any obvious concerns. Anyone know please?
     
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  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Grandfather rights as it already existed rather than a new build station possibly?

    Although of course it’s use as the terminus of a heritage railway doesn’t really fit with the historical use,
     
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  5. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    Pretty certain that's how WHR opened Beddgelert despite it being on a 1in33.
     
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  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Isn't the gap of 87 years rather 'pushing the boundaries' ?
     
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  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Not sure, however -
    It’s true about the gradient there, not 87 years of course but still quite a gap.
     
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  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Isn't there also an issue at Beddgelert that if the station weren't there, it couldn't serve a key destination on the through railway?
     
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  9. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Possibly, hence the original question mark, certainly not a strong area in my knowledge.
     
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  10. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    The case of Beddgelert surely pivots on the railway never having actually closed- there was just a rather prolonged possession for renewals. The new L&B are building a new railway line in 2022. On the formation of a previous line, but an entirely new line for all legislative purposes.

    Re. Beeching closures: there were many branches built 1870-90 to serve bypassed communities, often to prevent a rival company from encroaching on territory. They may have actually made money for a few years, but post WW1, they steadily lost money- and the roots-feeding-the-tree theory doesn't hold. These lines then haemorrhaged money from the system for 40 years, with no apparent hope of this ever changing, and were closed. Should the remaining land asset really have been tied up as a liability for the next 70 years just in case the world changed in ways that nobody in 1955 could possibly have foreseen?
    Profit for 20 years, breakeven 20 years, loss 40 years- just wait another 60 years and this will be really useful.
    When the railways were nationalised, competing routes previously owned by rival companies were just a drain on resources. When the whole network was losing money year on year, should the less efficient of two parallel routes have been kept, subsidised by the better route, just in case?
    How many of you have kept 386 computers, just in case?
    How many of you have thought it daft that your wife has 7 spatulas, 5 of which are never used?
     
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  11. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Off topic my Dad still has his Oric stored away :D

    As discussed earlier in the thread, the railway might have never officially closed, it did however require a new LRO for the initial section and a TWAO for the rest. What bearing this had on the grandfather rights I am unsure though.
     
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  12. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Oddly, the conditions under which Vale of Rheidol was constructed meant that, in order to not be held to have 'abandoned their enterprise', the moribund Aberystwyth Harbour Branch (never a financial success) saw a token movement once a year. As the only locomotive permitted on the branch, VoR No.3 Rheidol (GWR No. 1198) was withdrawn and scrapped in 1923, between then and 1930, when the GW threw in the towel as fas as commercial goods traffic (and winter running) was concerned, that "token movement" perforce involved someone shoving a wagon along the branch in each direction.

    During it's years of closure, the Festiniog was required to 'prove' the line wasn't legally 'abandoned', doing so by pointing to the section between Duffws and the LMS exchange sidings at Blaenau, which was formally leased to one of the quarries and rather more amusingly, cited the informal use of a waggon by a lineside householder .... during the same month in which said householder was threatened with legal action for trespass and illegal use of a waggon!
     
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  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Through stations can be on a gradient with agreement from the ORR as long as trains don’t terminate there and the loco stays attached. After all, there’s little difference between a train running through at (say) 15mph and one doing 0mph from a safety perspective.
     
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  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    But Beddgelert is routinely operated as a terminus


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Now, as historically, indeed it is. When the line was reopened, there was a stipulation that, due to the unbroken gradient through the station - the southern end of a full length train in the platform is over a full carriage height below the northern end (!) - Beddgelert was not to be used as a terminus. Presumably there has been some official easement.

    That actually brings up a question specific to the L&B. At any point during it's life, did the original company ever operate services over just part of.the line? Every timetable I've ever seen suggests not, but surely in the best part of 40 years, you'd expect there must've been some special event which justified extra trains?
     
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well, I observed trains terminating there last summer on the WHR's part line services.
     
  17. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    As mentioned*, they do .... very frequently regularly. On the current timetable, both the 'Glaslyn Venturer' (ex-Porthmadog) and 'Gelert Explorer' (ex-Caernarfon) terminate at Beddgelert and here's the F&WHR url to prove it:

    https://www.festrail.co.uk/trains/

    It's also just the sort of station to host the odd event, now and then. :)

    *are you sure you couldn't use another cup of coffee? ;)
     
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  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just poured, and glad we're on the same page!
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The essential feature of automatic vacuum or air brakes is that, if a train is divided, the brakes come on. Presumably they then have to stay on for some reasonable length of time (although not indefinitely, vide a nasty runaway at Lac-Mégantic). Therefore, even in the absence of any other measures, a train can't run away while the loco runs round. However the automatic operation is intended for abnormal circumstances, when a train divides by accident. For the routine situation of a loco running round with the train on a gradient, I would expect the rule book to require some additional measure, for example use of handbrakes or wheel chocks.

    Does anyone actually know?
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Separating the planned from unplanned, I can't find any current images (including Google Earth, where resolution isn't the best on my Android) showing trap points at Beddgelert - not too surprising, given PW nerds with camaras are a bit thinner on the ground than loco nerds with camaras! - but it seems a fairly safe bet there are trap points.
     

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