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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Old Kent Biker, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Meatman

    Meatman New Member

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    as far as i can recall,the original plan was to avoid the pub itself but to come around the edge of the pubs land and go under the road to a new station in the council car park,the one with the public conveniences in the top corner.
    anyhow,as it stands it looks like there could be a major stalemate going on here for quite a while as it seems one side want an astronomical amount for their business and the other side resorted to bully boy tactics,as far as i can see the trust dont have many options at the moment,if they had any sense they would go back to the ENPA and try to amend the planning they have to just extend the line down to Parracombe,something they should have done in the first place imo
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  2. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    Two things:

    For what it's worth I don't think the L&B themselves have resorted to 'bully boy' tactics, just some very reckless and stupid enthusiasts who think they're helping but most certainly are not.

    Secondly, I initially thought extending to Parracombe was a logical thing to do first but I have definitely changed my mind on this. Having a terminus, not matter how temporary, in Parracombe would have done nothing to ease residents' concerns about traffic and the volumes of people in the village. Equally, as a loop would have been required either significant alterations would need to be made to the Parracombe halt site, which would have substantially decreased the atmosphere, or an alternative site would have had to be found. It would also have removed the argument that the railway could decrease car congestion on Exmoor by using Blackmoor as a park-and-ride in essence, as you'd still need to either drive to Parracombe or Woody Bay.

    So on balance I agree with the case for extending to Blackmoor as the next phase - as much as I'd just like to see a longer L&B.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  3. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Still 'doable' ..... ruddy expensive and certainly not 'the preferred option', but not completely impossible. I guess it'd come down to how important to the local economy the revived L&B is, by the time the question arises.

    Why does Blackmoor bring the situation surrounding the Strathspey Railway's Granton extension to mind?
     
  4. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I don't follow the parallel.
     
  5. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall that a loop is planned at Parracombe in the current plans.

    Keith
     
  6. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Both involve alignments requiring very expensive road bridges. The StrathRly is currently awaiting something resembling action from some combination of Local Authority, Highways and ScotParl, which keeps getting kicked into the long grass.

    Hopefully, the LA and NatParks folks in Devon are more positively inclined to action than their Scottish counterparts.

    Edit: best clarify, I'm speaking of any putative future return to the historic alignment at this point.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  7. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/a95-gaich-to-craggan-section-improvements/
     
  8. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    I note it's status is 'in preperation' and there's nowt stated beyond the pretty general aspiration. IIRC, something rather more complete was on the table a few years ago, before one or more of the funding bodies got cold feet (which I think was down to the financial plug being pulled, further up the food chain). This ongoing saga reached the 'I'll believe it when I see it' stage some time ago!
     
  9. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Astronomical? I thought so too, but based on what? I agree that the sum we've heard bandied about was indeed a very big number-far far more than anyone would wish to pay for a building which could be converted into a railway station.
    For a comparison, the following premises are for sale:
    The Forest Inn, Hexworthy -£ 795,000
    The Landmark, South Pool -£500,000-£1,000,000
    A pub/restaurant at Nomansland, Lynton -£895,000

    These are all on the market at the moment, in the area, and one presumes reflect the market value of a business with good turnover and attractive premises and location. Also bear in mind that the owners of these premises want to sell, for whatever reason.
    Meatman, my apologies for quoting you. You've voiced an opinion a lot of people have, please don't take this as any sort of personal slight. I merely seek to bring more information to the discussion.
     
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  10. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Must admit that I hadnt looked at it for a while, but was under the impression that it had been 'in preparation' for a long time and opinion was that all the money had gone on the Aberdeen by-pass (A fine road!).
     
  11. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Of course the real issue is what would it fetch as a house, because in many cases thats what drives the value of business premises - much of course to the detriment of the business
     
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  12. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Only in cases where the business is not doing so well- not the matter in this particular case.
    Interesting point though- most old station buildings are simply attractive buildings, and have a further draw to railway enthusiasts because they are old railway buildings. 30 years ago, many enthusiasts would have been delighted to pay a premium to live in an old Lynton and Barnstaple Railway station. Today, most of us enthusiasts would far rather see this particular building as a station on a restored L&B, which takes us out of the market....
     
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  13. Meatman

    Meatman New Member

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    As i said in an earlier post, as stated in a letter by the pubs solicitors, at a meeting between the pubs owners and the Trust where the chairman of the Trust was present, a representative of the Trust said a compulsory purchase order would be used if necessary, maybe not bully boy tactics but definitely unnecessary in such negotiations, also as another member has stated, a loop is planned at Parracombe in the long term so no reason why the line cannot be extended to there, this would possibly increase foot visitors to Parracombe but I can't see that would be a bad thing, as for the park and ride scheme, I can't see that being fully effective until the line actually reaches Lynton and I feel once people realise the train would only go as far as Woody Bay and then they would be bussed to Lynton they would probably just drive to Lynton anyway, especially if they are a young family, so in that respect maybe phase 2b should have been considered first, a park and ride from Woody Bay to Lynton might have been more practical to relieve the traffic into Lynton but as it stands the planning is back to Blackmoor gate and if the purchase of the pub is at present in doubt something needs to be done to keep supporters interested in the project, you can only keep asking for donations for so long before people want to see something on the ground, it's a big jump to get back to Blackmoor gate in one hit, at least to head for Parracombe would raise supporters spirits, slowly slowly catchy monkey as they said
     
  14. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Re: Lynton. Mention was made of extending the original alignment to gain a more favourable location for the terminus (though presumably still some way above the village proper). Whether such a scheme is implemented, or restoration of the former site to be possible (which seems unlikely at present), some transfer arrangement, probably beyond the capacity of the existing historic Cliff Lift, to access one or both of the twin villages would seem essential. Is any clarification yet possible concerning the current thinking regarding this?
     
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  15. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt New Member

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    Planning application. I notice that the application is now being discussed by the planning committee rather than being decided by officers. Probably wise in view of the number of objections. The council will be aware that most of the objections are a standard letter even though the content of this letter has been modified as time goes on. Most of these mistakenly seem to think that the proposal is to shut the pub, even though the L and B website clearly states that this is not the intention. Since this is a reapplication of an expired application it is difficult to see how the council can turn it down especially in view of planning policies REC4 [protection of former railway routes] and BAR16 [reinstatement of L &B railway].
    Parracombe. From what I can see the planning consent [from a different authority] for the reinstatement up to Blackmoor Gate has a condition that the line cannot be reinstated until the Trust own all the land and that funds are in place. Since there appear to be two sections of the trackbed which the Trust do not yet own then this condition would prevent the reinstatement to Parracombe [where the trust own the land] being the half way point on the section to Blackmoor until there is a change of ownership.
    TWAO. I notice from the public area of the Website that there was an exhibition and Public Consultation Days last weekend. I wonder just how many of the objectors turned up to the event. No doubt when the application goes in we will be asked to write in support.
     
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  16. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    One of the conditions of planning permission being granted, was that at no time was Parracombe to be used as a terminus, temporary or otherwise. That is non- negotiable.
    I thought we all knew this.
     
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  17. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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  18. Meatman

    Meatman New Member

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    oh dear,if thats the case then options must be running out,all the negativity towards the railway after last weeks Blackmoor debacle will surely feed Louise's fire, especially seeing that she and the pub owners have the same solicitors and im sure she isn't going to give up her section of track bed without a fight and the talk of compulsory purchase was the cause of last weeks issues,i think we all knew it was going to be a long process but it doesn't look like there's going to be any light on the horizon for a very long time,i just hope im proved wrong
     
  19. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Looking back over the last few pages of this thread, the general theme seems to have much in common with current British politics, in that a huge amount of heat has been generated, whilst any light appears at best to be refracted and contradicted to the point of being nigh incomprehensible. Social media really can be a great means of creating confusion, suspicion and uncertainty.
    The planning committee meeting will be interesting, to say the least, especially if more contradictory evidence is presented.
    Should the railway's interests prevail, it's quite possible that the TWAO will be the only place that genuine "Cut Through" finally occurs, and we all get to know what has actually been occurring here.
     
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  20. Tobbes

    Tobbes New Member

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