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LSWR T3 563

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by nick813, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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  2. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    Steam Beano have always struggled with their greens and are still perpetuating the GWR/BR "Brunswick Green" myth.
    Ray.
     
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  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    "Royal" green was the Drummond passenger livery, probably close in shade to Adams "pea" green judging by the pigment mixture of the two, which were very similar. "Holly" green was the livery for goods engines, and much darker. So I suspect Steam Railway have it wrong.

    Tom
     
  4. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Haha, thanks guys! I must admit, I have always liked the livery on 245 so I would hope that that is what the group are going for.
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Not strictly to do with 563, but assuming a 2-3 year time span to restore this engine, what other LSWR engines could possibly be included if the Swanage railway wanted to have an LSWR gala to launch it in to service , i'm assuming M7, S15 ( 506, or if ready 499) if you add an Static exhibition , then T9, Beatie well tank 02,( assuming each are not already stripped down for overhaul) and what LSWR coaches could be assembled for a short rake, ( possibly not all passenger carrying) theres the bluebell compo, the NRM coach, what other LSWR( Including southern built ) could be assembled ?
     
  6. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    The NRM's coach would only be suitable for static display, I gather that underneath the shiny paint she is actually in poor condition structurally. AFAIK 1520 at the Bluebell and the luggage van at Quainton are the only operable LSWR coaching vehicles.
     
  7. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Royal saloon.
     
  8. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Amazing. Such a recent and spectacular event.
    And yet we nearly all forgot it!
     
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  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    N.P. is characteristically lococentric!
     
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  10. LSW Man

    LSW Man New Member

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    I just signed mainly with the interest of clarifying a few things related to the Swanage Railway and the LSWR in general.

    Firstly, a recent contributor discussed the possibility of forming a short LSW rake of coaches at Swanage to coincide with the T3 No. 563 re entering traffic. The contributor mentions that there is an LSWR coach, specifically singular, in the NRM. Can I just clarify that this is not a single coach but part of the tri composite two coach set which I believe was set aside for the Waterloo centenary in 1948. I checked the NRM's website fairly recently and I could see no information on the second coach of the set. Does anyone know what has happened to this coach, the other one of the set, and where it currently resides?

    Secondly, I know this is a thread about the T3 class but I'm also interested in Drummond M7 30053. Can anyone enlighten me and other forum users as to it's current state? (I know its boiler certificate expired so I assume it is undergoing overhaul?)

    Finally, firmly with my dreaming hat on, if the Swanage Railway wanted at some point to recreate a rake of LSWR coaches to go behind the T3, T9 and M7 this is still entirely possible. I visited Blaenavon with my dad many years ago and there were two LSWR wooden body bogie coaches there. According to the vintage carriages survey (which is an excellent source of information) there's one unrestored LSWR bogie coach on the KESR. There are three LSWR bogie coaches on the Bluebell although I doubt they will ever want to part with them. Then there are a number of later ironclad coaches in preservation although none are in working order. There are also three coach bodies already at Swanage originally of a four or six wheel nature I imagine.

    So there is a number of possibilities for an LSW rake, including a mixed bogie and four or six wheeled rake, where a historical portrayal of an LSWR train for the first decades of the twentieth century could be created.

    Of course, I know that the Swanage Railway have a number of projects already on their hands including the restoration of the historic coaches and Mk 1s already in their care and the overhaul of the T3. But maybe a rake of LSWR coaches will one day come to fruition at Swanage?
     
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  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    As far as I am aware, only single coach took part in the Waterloo centenary, which is the one now preserved at the NRM. It was a single tri-composite brake, not a two coach set.

    Tom
     
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  12. LSW Man

    LSW Man New Member

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    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for your reply. Maybe I am under the wrong impression when I say a 'set' but I can remember quite clearly visiting the NRM and seeing M7 No. 245 presented at the head of two LSWR wooden bodied coaches which seemed to match (at least livery wise- salmon and brown) although only one of them was a brake coach I believe.

    I also remember seeing photographs on the internet with No.245 at the head of this train in the part of York NRM recreated to look like a terminus.

    Unless I am going mad there were definitely two LSWR coaches although whether they were actually a set as I initially stated I cannot be sure.

    Maybe I got that impression from my father who would always refer to the two coaches as the tri composite set.

    In any case there were definitely two LSWR coaches of which one appears to have vanished. If anyone can give any information on its whereabouts or what has happened to it that would be much appreciated.

    Cheers for now

    (Ps Just a quick edit. I have checked a wikipedia page (how accurate this is I don't know) and it does not list the second coach as either part of the current carriage collection at the NRM or part of its past collection. But I definitely remember seeing two LSWR coaches in matching salmon and brown livery. So it appears, how this is possible I do not know, that one LSWR coach has simply vanished into thin air)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  13. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    Having had the privilege of going inside the NRM’s tricomposite, I can confirm that it is a single carriage.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  14. LSW Man

    LSW Man New Member

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    I hate to disagree with people on the forum but I definitely remember visiting the NRM York maybe 10 or 15 years ago and there were two LSWR coaches behind M7 No. 245.

    I can remember that there were two coaches because at some point I believe the set was split with one coach going for display at Shildon and one staying at York.

    I remember this because I thought it was an odd decision to part the set and not leave them on display together.

    (I also visited the NRM when I was a young boy and my dad, having an interest in the LSWR, specifically pointed out the two carriages to me.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  15. 35B

    35B Part of the furniture

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    I was at the NRM yesterday but was on a hurried visit so didn't see the M7 and attached carriage. I won't therefore comment on what was there yesterday from the LSWR, or reach into my memories from a decade or more ago, save to observe that I do not recall a second LSWR vehicle behind the M7. However, I will dig in on my comment over the tri-composite carriage, and that there is a single tri-composite vehicle - because that status is part of what was highlighted when I was shown around it.

    The specific reason for it's construction was the level of Withered Arm portion working, and the need to be able to carry passengers of all classes on the single through carriage from Waterloo.

    Edit: the Railway Heritage Register only shows three NRM LHCS vehicles of LSWR origin. Of the two at York, one is the tri-composite and the other is a dining saloon, acquired from the Bicester Military Railway and now forming the heart of an (excellent) exhibition on ambulance trains. That at Shildon is an underframe only.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I can only remember seing one coach behind the M7 at York , but over the years memories can get hazy, if there is an underframe is there any grounded LSWR coach bodies that one day might if it was possible benefit from it, especially if it was an historically important body.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The only other LSWR - ish carriages that would have been at York that I am aware of are the ancient Bodmin and Wadebridge carriages, but they couldn’t be mistaken for anything else.

    There are some photos here from 2000 showing that at that time, the carriage was exhibited coupled to a loco at one end and nothing at the other.

    http://www.semgonline.com/coach/lswr_co_01.html

    The lighting in the NRM isn’t great, so possibly it is conceivable that at one point another wooden “light above and dark below” carriage was marshalled behind the LSWR carriage; for example http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=649 ?

    Tom
     
  18. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    I think that I may be able to solve @LSW Man dilema. Tom et al are correct in saying that there was only the one LSWR bogie coach at the Museum, namely the one displayed with T3 563 at Waterloo for the station centenary in 1948. It currently is on display in Station Hall coupled to M7 245.

    However in the early days of the NRM they acquired a pair of Southern Motor Brake Thirds that had been used as a de-icing unit. Numbered S8143S and S8144S they had been part of a 4 SUB unit of 1925 (and probably based on an LSW design). The former has been beautifully restored to its as built condition but the latter was surplus to requirement and cut up where it stood. I suspect that this is what LSW Man is mis-remembering

    Attached is a picture of S8144S awaiting its fate in 1978

    Peter
     

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  19. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Then to follow up the previous post I have now found another picture of S8144S in the process of being scrapped in Jan 1979

    Peter
     

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  20. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member

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    I believe the only reason both were sent to York was since otherwise some other kind of match-wagon would have been required for the journey.
     

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