If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

LSWR T3 563

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by nick813, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    9,021
    Likes Received:
    4,247
    Occupation:
    Layabout
    Location:
    Your nightmares
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    [​IMG]
     
  2. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Likes Received:
    214
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    South Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Love this! 365 for 563
     
    Sunnieboy likes this.
  3. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    2,271
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The GWR was welding copper fireboxes regularly, I don't know about other lines. Cook states Swindon's technique was to use pure copper, with a copper backing strip and sand spread over the completed weld to control cooling. It was so hot in the firebox that they had two teams of two welders, who changed over after doing a quarter of the length of a Castle firebox. They got a confirmation of how well it was working during WW2 when a Hall had the firebox outer penetrated by shrapnel and though the box was distorted the weld showed no deformation.
     
    8126 likes this.
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    11,496
    Likes Received:
    6,233
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    it seems strange to me that the plate was cut away like that, then a patch put in place, I wonder was the original plan to repair the inner box, hence cutting out the front edges possibly to go a repair, but someone said, no just patch it up to enable it to work at reduced pressure, possibly because they had run out of time?
     
  5. gz3xzf

    gz3xzf New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    21C142
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It is interesting to compare the outer photo above with this photo taken of the same side from the firehole door (photo copied from the T3 page on Facebook): -
    42953253_240782066594350_7689766604183175168_n.jpg
     
    Hirn, jnc, torgormaig and 1 other person like this.
  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    292
    Interesting repairs.
     
    240P15 likes this.
  7. 5944

    5944 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I've seen quilts with fewer patches.
     
  8. 8126

    8126 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting, when did they start doing that? Was that welding in patches to the plate with the box in-situ, or bigger jobs like new half-sides on a removed inner firebox?

    The T3 box looks like it's had new half sides at some point (which I believe was a fairly standard repair to get more life out of a perfectly good crown when the lower sides were past it), then had a patch in the middle of the half-side seam, and a corner patch. It's worth remembering that the Adams express classes were basically on borrowed time from the Grouping onwards, they weren't even included in the Southern secondary passenger interchange trials where they attempted to determine which of their surplus of secondary passenger classes (mostly downgraded express 4-4-0 classes) were worth keeping.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    Likes Received:
    4,371
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    You wouldn't insert a patch without cutting away the metal behind it. A recipe for disaster to do otherwise.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,207
    Likes Received:
    4,371
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It may look awful when looked at with a 21st century eye but it shows how skilful boilermakers had to be without the benefit of modern techniques.
     
    clinker, RLinkinS, jnc and 3 others like this.
  11. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    803
    Location:
    Durham
    This was, as I understand it, simply a 'quick fix' to get the locomotive running for the LSWR Centenary celebrations, and was not intended to be subject to normal full boiler pressure - I have heard 50psi mentioned?
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    16,411
    Likes Received:
    23,986
    Location:
    21C102
    People seem to be assuming that the visible repairs were specifically in connection with the overhaul for the Waterloo centenary. Is that known for sure? It would seem at least feasible (and the boiler record card would confirm, if it still exists) that what you are looking at is evidence of several different repairs over a period of time. Does anyone know for sure?

    Tom
     
    S.A.C. Martin, 35B and LesterBrown like this.
  13. 8126

    8126 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2014
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, in some ways the view from the inside hides how well that corner patch has been feathered in, they've covered both plates of a lap seam with a single plate - same with the half-side seam, you can see from the outside how they've still managed to have it smooth at the join over the tubeplate flange and (presumably) good for the boiler pressure without leaking. It's good that we can do weld repairs for that sort of thing these days, it's technically a much neater solution, but the way these things were done is impressively skilful.

    I'm not sure that any 'quick fix' was done to the boiler for the LSWR centenary; they could have got it in a reasonable state pretty damn quick if they'd wanted to, I'm sure, this was 1948 after all. I suspect they did nothing at all. It had been stored at the end of the war, being no longer necessary, I don't believe it was technically withdrawn until shortly before the SR officialdom went looking for an Adams express engine.
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    16,411
    Likes Received:
    23,986
    Location:
    21C102
    I disagree. It's really hard (believe me, I've tried...) to describe to an interested, but lay, audience, details of boiler construction and repair. If a picture is worth a thousand words, having the actual object must be worth a thousand times that, quite apart from the additional interest in this case of showing how quite intricate repairs were made. You might as well say that now "Rocket" has been forensically examined, the mortal remains should be scrapped to defray the costs.

    Out of interest, realistically where could the Swanage Railway display it? Presumably at Corfe Castle in the goods shed?

    Tom
     
    MellishR, S.A.C. Martin, 35B and 2 others like this.
  15. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2018
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    180
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe they started in the mid-late 30's. There's another reference to it in a book by a chap who worked there at the time, unfortunately I don't have it to hand and can't recall his name. They certainly ended up replacing half sides, although I don't know if that's something that was progressed to later on. Incidentally, if I remember rightly, the boiler on the new Saint is one with such a repair.
     
  16. jnc

    jnc Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    813
    Likes Received:
    885
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I guess I don't understand why; any chance you (or someone) could enlighten me? Thanks (I hope!)

    Noel
     
  17. oddsocks

    oddsocks Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,813
    Likes Received:
    288
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired / Dodging a Coffin for as long as I can.
    Location:
    Half a mile east of Snells Nook Halt. (1883-1931)
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Out of interest, realistically where could the Swanage Railway display it? Presumably at Corfe Castle in the goods shed?

    Tom[/QUOTE]

    Hopefully, somewhere very secure, so that the non-ferrous-metal fairies can't get their thieving Hi-habs anywhere near it!:(
     
    jnc and LesterBrown like this.
  18. jma1009

    jma1009 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    607
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    Given the very short time constraints between A B Macleod selecting 563, and the impending Waterloo Celebrations - just a month or so - all we know for sure via photographic evidence is that the loco got a retube with the boiler not removed. There is no evidence the boiler was removed at the time, so the repairs to the firebox were clearly patch repairs done earlier, and cheaply but skillfully done, as one would expect of Eastleigh in WW2.

    I don't know what can be learned from preserving the inner firebox. The IOWSR had the old boiler (1916?) on display in the car park at Havenstreet from W11 (Newport), but I don't think anyone took a great deal of notice of it, though I did measure it up.

    I fail to see what can be gleaned or learned from keeping the old inner firebox. A lump of copper of considerable scrap value.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
  19. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    1,413
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    The way I read it, the plan is to use it to educate visitors about how a firebox/boiler works within a steam loco and also to show the public how they were constructed and repaired.

    Keith
     
  20. 007

    007 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    249
    For now we don’t actually know where it will be displayed but our museums team will be coming up with ideas about the best way to display it.
    We have 2 under cover and secure display facilities, Corfe Castle goods shed and the Mining Museum at Norden.

    The locomotive in the goodshed will eventually move to Norden and space will be available but the team at Corfe will decide the best way forward.

    The SRT May wish to let the firebox out on a bit of tour of railway museums as well.
    It is truely astonishing to see it up close if you know what you are looking at, the challenge is to make it an interesting exhibit for the layman.
     

Share This Page