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Longest Tank Engine Runs

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by johnofwessex, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    AFAIK most Tank Loco's - or at least the modern ones carried enough coal for a days work as unlike watering, coaling wasnt such a simple operation
     
  2. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    I make no claims for the longest run, but was interested to read today that the Hughes superheated Lanky Radials did long runs as well as typical suburban type work. For example, Bradford to Blackpool and Manchester to Hellifield. These both included some pretty fearsome climbing.
     
  3. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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    Hy can anyone tell me the differences between the Billington 4-6-4 of the LBSCR and the Hughes 4-6-4 of the L&Y R They seem to be identical Regards
     
  4. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Erm, they're entirely different and look quite dissimilar...
    The Billington LBSCR (later Southern) Baltic's were 2 cylinder machines (with inside valve gear) with the tanks over all three coupled axles, while the Hughes L&Y (in fact LMS, they came out after the grouping) were four cylinder (with outside valve gear). The latter had short length tanks over only the rear two coupled axled and cabs cut down quite severely for the Midland loading gauge. The running plate stepped up over their cylinders.
    Although I'm a Horwich partisan, I'll happily concede that the Brighton Baltic tanks were the handsomest of that wheel arrangement in the British isles.[​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  5. 242A1

    242A1 Member

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    Some interesting inside valve gear on 2331.
     
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  6. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Oops.... both got outside valve gear....
    What I meant to draw attention to is that the LBSC locos don't have piston valves above the outside cylinders, whereas they are obvious on the L&Y locos.
    I also concede they do look quite similar compared to other British tank locos.
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Presumably rockers of some sort between the outside Walschaerts and the inside valves.
     
  8. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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    Thanks for the info. Its ok when you know what to look for. There is only limited info on the internet and I know about the surging in the tanks but I understood they werent cut down but an inner ceiling put in to stop the surging plus a well tank Also the billington tanks had smaller tendrs with the curved top like a Jinty and had Baker piston gear but the Hughes had a striaght baked tender like the old GNR and with Walshart gear but I saw a photo of the straight backed tender on the Brighton line so dedued that they were similiar engines. It also mentioned that the southern engines were not so successful because of water but the Hughes engines benefited from the LMS water troughs and could pick up water, at speed in both directions Powerful locos. Pity one was not preserved Regards
     
  9. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    According to Cox the L&Y ones were something of a coal merchant's friend.
     
  10. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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    Sorry I meant bunker instead of tender They didnt have tenders till after grouping
     
  11. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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    Yes they were a bit heavy on coal but for a tank engine worked surprisingly well on passenger express. but were shortened and became 4-6-0 tender engines and did extremly well but now I know the difference between them I am happy Regards
     
  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    I think you may have misunderstood the history of these locos. The 4-6-0 tender locos first appeared in 1908 and were progressively rebuilt from 1920 with outside Walschaerts valve gear and other improvements. Nine Baltic tank engines were built in 1924 i.e. after the grouping but, as the frames had already been cut, the next 20 locos which had been planned as tank engines were turned out as tender locos. The photo below is of a rebuilt 4-6-0 'Dreadnought' in pre-grouping livery.
    Ray.
    Hughes 4-6-0.jpg
     
  13. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    The Brighton drivers seem to have regarded them well when they were 4-6-4Ts but when rebuilt as 4-6-0 tender engines, they were allocated to the South Western division where they didn't exactly shine. Classifying them "N15X" didn't help as "N15" was the class name for the King Arthurs. "X" in LB&SCR nomenclature meant "Rebuilt" which would have also implied "improved" and no way were the rebuilt "Remembrances" equal (let alone superior) to the Maunsell N15s - indeed, I don't think they were even as good as the L&SWR Urie N15s which formed the basis of Maunsell's design (Nos 736-755) but am open to correction on this. As evidence, I would point out that the Urie N15s were used on secondary express work on the Bournemouth line into the 1950s whereas the "Remembrances" seem to have eked out their days on stopping trains. Also the last "Remembrance" was scrapped in 1956 whereas the last Urie "Arthur" hung on until `1958.
     
  14. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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  15. Tyke

    Tyke New Member

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    The reason I got into researching these locos was I came across a model called a Halton Tank and cant decide whether it is the model of a real loco or a model of a ficticious model None of the names seem to be recorded and I cant decice whether it is similiar to a Hughes or Billington tank
     
  16. Jimc

    Jimc Well-Known Member

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    Holcroft seems to have quite liked the N15X. In his Locomotive Adventure Vol1 he reports "they excelled [on] milk trains for the West Country... had to work to a fast schedule with punctuality and with good acceleration from each stop."
     
  17. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    For beauty you can't beat a Furness baltic!
     
  18. Eightpot

    Eightpot Well-Known Member

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    The Halton tank was a freelance design 4-6-4 in 5" gauge by Henry Greenly (of Bassett-Lowke and RH&DR fame amongst others), so freelance that it had a wide firebox placed between the trailing drivers and the leading wheels of the rear bogie. Named and probably designed for the RAF apprentice training establishment at Halton, near Wendover, Buckinghamshire. There is talk of closing it down, but it still has a Hawker Hunter jet as a gate guardian.
     
  19. bluetrain

    bluetrain New Member

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    Thank-you for posting the photos of the Billinton & Hughes 4-6-4 tank locos. I rather like 4-6-4 tanks. The symmetrical wheel arrangement tends to make for very good-looking engines. But I have to acknowledge that the 4-6-4 never took firm root in the British Isles, being eclipsed by some very successful 2-6-4 tank designs.

    It is interesting to observe the positions of the drivers' heads in relation to the heights of the tank tops in the two photos. This illustrates the comment that I made in #33 about the restricted visibility from the cabs of both Hughes and Whitelegg 4-6-4 tanks. If crew visibility is regarded as an important design consideration, then the Billinton LBSC engine appears far superior on this score.

    The LBSC design suffered at first from stability issues, as a result of which it was fitted with a large well tank, with the water capacity of the side-tanks being reduced. The external side-tank height was retained for appearance sake, but was actually partly fake.

    Even a large tank loco can be deigned to omit side-tanks and carry the whole of its water supply in well-tanks and back-tanks, an example being the Canadian National Class X10 (ex-Grand Trunk Class K2) 4-6-4 tank.
     

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  20. MellishR

    MellishR Well-Known Member Friend

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    Ah yes, but that's with the very high North American loading gauge, which allows the boiler to be high up, leaving loads of room below for a tank (and for the wide firebox also visible in those pics).
     

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