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Locomotives that NEARLY made it

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Hicks19862, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    As often mentioned it is a tragedy that the two broad gauge locos were cut up a Swindon in 1906; in fact six or seven locos were 'preserved' by the GWR over the years. However the tendency were generally to keep interesting locos as 'curiosities' without any real thought of 'heritage'value or any intention that they should be kept for ever.

    Back in 1863 when locos were numbered upwards as additions were made to stock the oldest standard gauge loco the GWR would ever possess, Chester & Birkenhead Rly "Touchstone" of 1840, was, exceptionally renumbered 1 and this tiny, ancient, 2-2-2 remained in stock until 1873. Even then it wasn't scrapped but set to stationary use.

    In 1871 "North Star" was famously preserved at Swindon, until cut up in 1906.

    In 1881 the former Llanelly Rly "Victor" was acquired when the Carmarthen and Cardigan was taken over. The strange appearance of this Fossick and Hackworth loco with high inclined cylinders was sufficiently interesting for it to be preserved until 1889 even though never taken into GWR stock.

    In 1883 the broad gauge South Devon 'coffee pot'was put on display at Newton Abbot as a curiosity where it fortunately didn't seem to get in anyone's way and still survives.

    In 1884 "Lord of the Isles" was preserved at Swindon, perhaps as a tribute to it's designer who was now Chairman of the Company. Again lost in 1906.

    In 1885 George Armstrong preserved Shrewsbury and Chester 2-2-2 no 14 of 1847 at Wolverhampton, apparently being his favourite loco when he was a driver. It was sadly scrapped as late as 1920.

    Finally in 1946 the GWR actually purchased a loco specifically as a museum piece, Wantage Tramway "Shannon" of 1857 to display at Wantage station. It seems that station platforms were the only places where antique locos were safe on The Great Western!
     
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  2. daveannjon

    daveannjon Member

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    Slightly off-topic but mention of Bill Harvey earlier reminded me that my only cab ride in BR steam days was about 1960 when I was staying with my gran at Lowestoft and my 'uncle' Edwin Capps, who was a Lowestoft driver and a relation, knowing I was keen, invited me down to Lowestoft Central one day around 5pm. I wasn't sure what for but found he was relieving the crew off the afternoon through train from Liverpool St and taking the loco back to Lowestoft MPD. I duly met him and the train rolled in behind B1 61043, one of Bill Harvey's - Edwin was disappointed it wasn't a Brit! I of course was thrilled and enjoyed a look around the shed after the ride, remembering K3s and J50s amongst others. Edwin was an out and out steam man and was very downhearted that the GE section dieselised so early, sadly he died young.
    In later years I read Bill Harvey's excellent Sixty Years in Steam and was thrilled to find it had a photo of 61043. I wrote to Bill and we corresponded for a little while, he got a copy of the photo for me and I donated to the B12 fund. He said the book as published was about 100,000 words but that he had written over 200,000 which included the diesel takeover, that would have been a fascinating read. What a nice man he was.

    Dave
     
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  3. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Member

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    As well as North Star and Lord of the Isles, didn't Stanier try to have some locos cut up when he went to the LMS as well?
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    There were certainly a few locos put by, in the paint shop at Derby (IIRC), including a 1-10 class 4-4-0t ex-NLR

    IMG_20170411_0003-M.jpg

    [Yet another lovely shot courtesy of the invaluable 'Transports of Delight - Smugmug']
     
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  5. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    I don't know where the rumour Stanier had anything to do with the broad gauge engines came from, but its nonsense. Stanier was junior at the time, and not even based at Swindon.
    The truth of the story as told in the GWR minutes is here.
    http://www.devboats.co.uk/gwdrawings/northstarmyth.php
    The GWR spent two years trying to find a museum to take them before they eventually cut them up.
     
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  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The last point in that post is interesting that it is an LNER museum and it makes me wonder why other companies did not endeavour to set up their own museums.

    Someone mentioned a while back as to why did sheds not take a loco and plinth it as seems to be the case in other countries. I wonder if that is because of the existence of the national collection meant that the decision to preserve locos was deemed to be a decision for others to make rather than for a shedmaster etc. Why preserve a Castle for Old Oak Common or Bristol Bath Road, when there is already one in the Science Museum.
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    The Southern were allegedly in the throes of doing so, when the Austrian Corporal's ambitions got in the way. Whether plans had reached the stage of identifying a putative location, I know not.
     
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  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    AFAIK it was really a NER idea.

    The NER like some other companies was very good at 'Economic Development' - I gather that the GER was not in the rural areas and they identified a Railway Museum as a potential 'Tourist Attraction;' in York prior to WW1 with people arriving on NER trains, staying in NER hotels etc.................
     
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  9. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Member

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    I can't remember where I heard it but glad to hear I was misinformed about it.
     
  10. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Member

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    I've just remembered another possible close call. I recall seeing an article in an old copy of the Mid Hants News, that the owner of 34105 Swanage, originally planned to buy an 8F instead.

    However I forget the number of the 8F, so it might have been one of the ones that did make it into preservation, hence why I put possible close call.
     
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  11. 60044

    60044 Member

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    As all but one of the Barry 8Fs were saved there's a good chance that the one marked up for the Mid Hants was one of them. I've a vague recollection it was either 48624 (which was) or 48518 (which didn't unless you count the boiler and cylinders).

    I was looking at a picture today that showed Stanier 2cyl 2-6-4Ts in 1966 stored awaiting removal for scrapping - what a shame there weren't one or two of these left at the end of steam.

    I also seem to recall that a B16 was retained for a long time at Draper's yard in Hull, kept for an ultimately failed preservation attempt. It would have been good to have had another pre-grouping 4-6-0, they are rather thin on the ground as it is.
     
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  12. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Why though was it the ex LMS loco's - Black 5's & 8f''s that survived to the end of steam & not the Standards?
     
  13. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Very true. Both classes would be the 'right' size for any of the longer heritage lines. Re the Stanier 2cyl 2-6-4T's fifteen of them actually survived into 1967 with the last, 42616, not being withdrawn until October '67.
    Ray.
     
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  14. daveannjon

    daveannjon Member

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    I almost wish you hadn't told me about the Stanier tanks! Such a shame.

    Dave
     
  15. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Why did the Q6's and J27's last as long as they did? Is it for the same reason Colas has bought so many class 37's? Simple reliable pieces of kit that can get the job done with a minimum of fuss?
     
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  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Did the depots in the north-west that remained open longest for steam historically have large allocations of those classes and not so many standards?
     
  17. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe that it was largely because the depots where those locos were allocated were the last to use steam and it was not the policy to transfer locos in from elsewhere.
     
  18. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Member

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    From BR and not including any new builds :
    Black 5MT - 18 from 840+ (2%)
    Stanier 8F - 6 from 625+? (>1%)
    Standards : 46 from 998 (4.6%)

    Britannias 2 from 54
    8P - 1 from 1
    Clans 0 from 10
    5MT - 5 from 172
    4MT 4-6-0 6 from 80
    4MT 2-6-0 4 from 115
    3MT 2-6-0 0 from 20
    2MT 2-6-0 4 from 65
    4MT 2-6-4T 15 from 155
    3MT 2-6-2T 0 from 45
    2MT 2-6-2T 0 from 30
    9F 9 from 251

    No so bad for Standards overall
     
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  19. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Given the very small numbers of Clans (10) and Class 3 2-6-0's (20) the only (possibly) significant class not to survive was the Class 3 2-6-2T
     
  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Stroudley's Terriers and Wainwright's P class haven't done half badly either, though even they haven't done as well as much of Henry Greenley's stuff!
     
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