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LNER HST farewell tours 18-21/12/19

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul.Uni, Nov 20, 2019.

  1. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    It was often quoted that the ECML electrification started to run out of dough, due to cost over runs, and that led to extending the pole intervals.

    From memory that was north of York, but ir could be Newcastle, certainly when high winds come, the slow down seems to effect the Northern part of the ECML more often, to back up the theory.
     
  2. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    The 800s are better than the Voyagers in this respect - but the basic problem remains - and its all down to the use of retostatic brakes.

    Reostatic brakes (where the traction motors are turned into electrical generators to help slow trains down is in itself a very good thing, it means less wear on brake pads / discs and less brake dust discharged into the atmosphere, the problem comes when you have no electrical infrastructure (be it overheads or con rail) to put that electricity generated by the traction motors (turned generators) back into.

    To get round this problem the designers of the Voyagers (and 800s) were forced to fit stonkingly big resistors to the trains to dissipate the electrical energy as heat - but the use of underfloor engines (and tilt mechanisms with some Voyager variants) plus the need to supply a good quantity of air to cool the resistors as they heated up under braking meant said resistors ended up stuck in wells on the carriage roofs.

    Unfortunately salt water is a good conductor of electricity - and it was discovered that when coated in / lying in salt water, these resistors decreased massively in terms of their resistance rating - and this in turn meant that the reostatic braking wouldn't function - which in turn meant the train had reduced barking ability - so the on board computers went and stopped the train .

    Hence Voyagers are now banned from going west of Exter when the sea is breaking over the railway at Dawlish.

    Now while the DfT specification (Please remember the 800s were the result of the DfT RUN project to come up with a next generation HST) has interoperated lessons from the Voyager experience, its virtually impossible to make any train featuring reostatic braking 'Dawlish proof'. What Hitachi have done instead is make their trains 'Dawlish resistant' - which translates as much better than the Voyagers but not as good as the HSTs which lacked any sort of regenerative brakes or on board computer systems.
     
  3. Phil-d259

    Phil-d259 Member

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    It might not sound like much - but even an extra 50cm can have an effect if the masts are already at the maximum the engineers can feel they can go too.

    Thus while it may appear the the northern section of the WCML has the same mast spacing as the ECML the reality is probably quite different.

    Thing is its not just wind loading thats an issue, the uplift forces from the pantographs have to be factored into the mix as well.

    The more flexible (i.e. flimsy) the OLE, the more these will have an impact and the greater the chances of the wire either not making good contact with the pantograph head or being blown out such that it slips underneath the pantograph head and gets ripped down.

    The slower the train runs the lower the uplift forces, which might be relevant to your earlier point as the WCML speeds were generally 100 -110mph rather than 125mph on the ECML. Its also why imposing speed restrictions on the ECML during windy conditions can help compensate for the extra movement set up in the OLE.
     
  4. RogueCloud

    RogueCloud Member

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    My point was that the mast spacing on the ECML through Scotland appears to be noticeably *closer* spaced than the Scottish section of the WCML. Actually, I believe the WCML to be built with a fairly constant specification, while the ECML is more variable. The more exposed sections, such as the coastal strip around Berwick and through parts of East Lothian have masts that are more close together than the less exposed sections. My impression though is that even the wider spaced sections on the ECML are tighter spaced than those on the WCML.

    Unfortunately, my observations are drawn from years of photographing both lines and learning where it is tight or easy to fit the loco(s) between the masts. I have never made or seen any measurements. Do you know that the ECML is actually specified with wider spaced masts and what I'm observing is some kind of optical illusion?

    I do take your later points about other issues that may affect OHL resilience, but the point I was making was simply an observation on the mast spacings, not on how well tensioned the OHL is, etc.
     
  5. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    An interesting observation to me is that around Prestonpans the masts are only the half type with single base covering both tracks rather than the full type with bases at both sides. Given the wind speeds at that point is there any rationale which suggests which is the better type ?
     
  6. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Well let's hope at least that the belt and braces structures on the GWML may be rather more resilient even though it all looks like a scaffolding factory now. Maybe the EU electrification grant had some use after all.
     
  7. peckett

    peckett New Member

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    Scaffolding Factory ?You ant seen anything until you see the Midland main line in the Kettering area. Although the wires have not been threaded thro' ,full football post , (masts either side that is) ,straddle the 4 lines ,half ones at intervals between those, straddle the main and slow lines one each.
    Please see photo attached. For any one interested its the Corby -Margam steel empties diverted via Kettering South Jnc,a couple of weeks ago.
     

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  8. D1002

    D1002 Well-Known Member

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    According to the January edition of ‘Railway Magazine’ the Retro HST set is to be stored at Ely, pending a decision on it’s future.
     
  9. 5944

    5944 Well-Known Member

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    It's moved there today.
     
  10. John Rowley

    John Rowley New Member Friend

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    Yes I was at Thirsk at the crack of dawn to see it. Too dark for photography , maybe half an hour later would have worked.
    Notably the station announcer kept interested parties up to speed with the progress of the set from Darlington which I thought was a nice touch, though I think I was the only one there.

    2 Carriages had been inserted at the rear that are still in the red/White LNER livery
     
  11. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 New Member

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    Coach C and Coach G which were removed for the farewell tour.
     
  12. Landshrew

    Landshrew Member

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    E43112 leads W43006 from Ely to it’s final resting place at Papworth Sidings on NYE morning. An appropriate way to see out 2019 and “The Age of the Train” 29A06B66-0346-4F59-A8E1-FE4E803AB03B.jpeg CABE442B-49C1-40FD-B33C-B631A3C50808.jpeg
     
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  13. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Totally agree. I was very surprised by the jittery ride in my first IET run. Why? On diesel power they aren’t as quick as the HSTs and overall the start to stop times are only slightly faster.
     
  14. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interesting you say that, being 6'4 my back is crap, but I have spent many hours on Pendolinos with no back trouble at all, never had the 'pleasure' of an Azuma to date, but the 195 seats cripple me!
     
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  15. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I’m 6’6”, but apparently have “short” legs - meaning that the normal ratios are skewed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm similarly limited in the leg department. my 5'7 wife has legs the same length as mine!
     

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