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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works New Member

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    That is a seriously poorly worded letter. Did anyone proof read it before it was issued?! Nor does it explain the context of the appeal, the reasons for the problem or what is being done to address the root causes.

    Good news though if the immediate financial storm has been weathered.
     
  2. garth manor

    garth manor Member

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    All a storm in a teacup then !
    A great future awaits with Corwen and a quality loco line up to serve it.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not sure it's that. A mentioned above the root cause hasn't necessarily been addressed, so what's to stop another similar financial hole opening up in a few years' time?
    The letter is interesting in that it differentiates between £90,000 the trust intended to pay as repaying a loan, which might be seen as fair enough, and a further £35,000 as "Running money". Unless that's a technical accounting term I'm unfamiliar with, it sounds very much like "pay back the loan, plus a bit extra to keep them going a bit longer" which sounds like a charity propping up a Plc.
    This does raise the question of how dodgy would it be for all railway charities to find a perfectly reasonable way to get in debt to their respective railways' Plcs, and the Plcs to not ask for the money unless it really has to? Would it fall into the category of tax evasion or tax avoidance?... I wish @Bean-counter hadn't left, he'd know! :(
     
  4. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    Thats the bit I dont understand, why does the Trust owe money to the trading bit, the PLC?
     
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I thought I read overhaul of trust owned locomotives a page or two back?
     
  6. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the accounts for the Llangollen Railway Trust for the last 5 years (as per CC website) it appears that a long term loan appears in the liabilities from the Plc as a “deferred liability”. It looks like this loan has now been called in, presumably as a financial “card” to play by the Plc in the present circumstances.

    The accounts don’t say what the loan is made of or when it first accrued, it could have been built up over time, not unusual for a Plc to transfer its annual profits to a related charity (particularly one that does not declare a dividend). Therefore past “good” trading years in the form of a loan from the Plc could now be called in when times are more difficult?

    regards

    Matt
     
  7. Just_Sayin

    Just_Sayin New Member

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    Exactly the issue. You can't expect things to change when you always do the same thing...
     
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  8. Jeff Albiston

    Jeff Albiston New Member

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    Probably not!
    And I think they should be offering more than complementary return tickets for donating £50 or more.
    If I was going to donate that sort of money, I would expect at least a footplate ride.
     
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  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    were the PLC maybe overhauling the engines to be repaid via steaming fees once operational . given the financial constraints the trust was asked to pay up front which presumably would mean steaming fees accruing
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    That would be a cheap footplate ride. NYMR charge £350 and there’s a waiting list.
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Quite - that was my thought too. Even on the Isle of Wight, which I believe is a shorter round trip than Llangollen, a footplate ride is £90.

    There is a more serious point too, which is about soliciting donations using as an inducement something of real, defined cashable value. At the very least, it makes the recovery of Gift Aid on the donation problematic, if the charity concerned wished to do so. By offering a trip worth £16 in exchange for a donation of £50, they would in my eyes forego the ability to collect - potentially - an additional £12.50 in Gift Aid on that donation. I'm sure appropriate advice has been taken on that matter (it isn't clear from the letter whether the donation would be to the Company, which couldn't reclaim Gift Aid anyway; or the Trust which potentially could, but not if the donation is really actually a sale of a ticket).

    Tom
     
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  12. MattA

    MattA Member

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    And the fun continues - latest from RailAdvent, shared on their facebook page half an hour ago, states that (presumably using the letter from a fortnight ago as a reference) that the LR plc has entered into a CVA https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/0...nto-voluntary-arrangement-with-creditors.html

    It's only just coming to the attention of the masses now, and with apparently out-of-date information - let the fun of all of the incoming doomsday comments commence!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  13. Mike Birch

    Mike Birch New Member

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    Fortunately now updated at 15:30
     
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  14. MattA

    MattA Member

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    Thank goodness. That said, the original, erroneous article will have reached a fair few people in those 30 minutes, who will need to be corrected!
     
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  15. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Member

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    The original letter should probably have read that we were considering entering into a cva if an input of funds did not happen, but no decision to do so was ever confirmed at board level, and the subsequent rallying round by members, shareholders and others has now resolved the situation.

    Bob.
     
  16. MattA

    MattA Member

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    Oh boy, looking at the Facebook comments on Rail Advent posts this evening is wilder than the WSR thread here on Nat Pres.... The commenters have generally seen the up-to-date information and are giving RA a hard time over it. RA also in some hot water, quite rightly in my opinion, for posting non-public information and blaming LR staff for not updating them before the article was published to defend the fact their initial article was even made in the first place!
     
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  17. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    The guy behind RA is a complete plank, solely interested in the number of likes / views his page receives over presenting actual news items.
     
  18. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    I must admit that the online article gave me a bad impression of the Llangollen current position. Sounded like they were shutting down!
     
  19. mdewell

    mdewell Member

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    Perhaps when people want to draw attention to, or comment upon articles that have appeared on RA, they can find and provide links to the real source of those stories rather than links to RA (Which do seem to be mostly cut'n'paste from other online sources). If they are unable to find such links they may want to consider why before posting . . .
     
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  20. 60044

    60044 Member

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    They might not be on the brink of shutting down but they certainly don't appear to be in a sound positiom.
     

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