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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I remember seeing a piece about World War II tank production in the US and Germany: one of the points noted was that vices were common in German tank factories and not in American ones. Now, why do you need a vice? Generally, because you want to hold some component while you fettle it until it fits - whereas in the American factories, things were built to fit without any further attention. If you got a widget off the shelf to replace a broken one, it just slotted into place.

    What's the relevance to railway and aircraft servicing? I think the point about there being profit in aviation in making sub assemblies is because you can design them, price based on the manufacturing cost plus your overheads, and then have high confidence that all your drivers of cost are gone. Whereas railway locomotives fundamentally require lots of fitting; and fitting not only takes time, but is also very uncertain. There are all sorts of things in restoring railway locomotives where it is really hard to say how long even small sub-tasks will take: a nut may unscrew or it may be completely seized and take burning out. One task may take a minute, the other half an hour. Pricing work I that sort of environment must be a complete nightmare.

    My understanding of the Llangollen engineering business was that they were tendering to do general and wide ranging locomotive work. But that has huge risks that jobs take longer than you budgeted for because of some stubborn fixing or awkward access or whatever. If you set up to contract manufacture, say, boiler stays, you could probably price them with a high degree of confidence based on material and machining cost. If you set up to do boiler overhauls fitting those stays in an old boiler - much riskier to price.

    Tom
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm open to correction but I also believe that this was one of the downfalls of Llangollen Engineering. They quoted to overhaul boilers/locos/etc without specifying exactly what they had included for and, quite naturally the owners expected a fully overhauled piece of kit for their pennies.
     
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  3. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

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    Not quite true, at least in the case of Morayshire where we asked for, and received, a quote for specific works on the locomotive. As with a number of overhauls, once the work was underway we agreed to some extra funding for additional works, for example on the shoulders of the firebox.
     
  4. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    The use of gotten has diminished in England quite recently. I remember my father saying, "He's gotten over it now." and similar phrases. I suspect that it is arguable that US English is often more traditional than heard here.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    My Shorter Oxford suggests it's an archaism from the late Medieval period. Which may also be why it's stuck in American usage.
     
  6. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps why also used in some dialects up North?
    PS ill-gotten, misbegotten, forgotten. Funny cove, English.
     
  7. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    As long as it doesn't become excessive; but I agree, in small doses it's often broadening and educational.

    Noel
     
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  8. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    Please take a look at the unofficial Llangollen Railway facebook site and see the fantastic job that our volunteers and full-time staff have accomplished this week. Remaining work comprises welding of rail joints, replacing the check-rail and other minor work. Thanks are also due to the Trust's fund-raising director Paul Bailey, who raised the required amount in a very short period.

    Bob.
     
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  9. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    Appalachian English has quite a few of those.

    Noel
     
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  10. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    That went well eh? ;)
     
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  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Excellent news in dark times.
     
  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update Bob, it is good to see so much progress despite the difficult times. Best of luck with the fundraising, my donation sent a couple of days ago. Give my best to 'The General' and Derek when you next see them.
    Cheers,
    Ray.
     
  13. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

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    OTE="marshall5, post: 2647539, member: 10374"]Thanks for the update Bob, it is good to see so much progress despite the difficult times. Best of luck with the fundraising, my donation sent a couple of days ago. Give my best to 'The General' and Derek when you next see them.
    Cheers,
    Ray.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the donation Ray. There are many positive things happening since the bad news was announced, with support coming from numerous sources.
    All donations will be welcomed, to enable us to purchase plc - owned vehicles and plant which are necessary to operate the railway.

    Bob.
     
  14. City of truro fan

    City of truro fan New Member

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    Will any work be allowed to go on or will they have to wait now until they are out of trouble. I hope they can stop the railway falling to bits until the trouble is sorted.
     
  15. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

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    As Bob pointed out above, work is currently continuing on Dee Bridge repairs.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    True!
     
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  17. hoffman

    hoffman New Member

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    Isn't that where the guard has his tea break?

    Stu
     
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  18. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    You may well be right! Look at the Pretzel under the number!
     
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  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Copied from Facebook:

    Latest update from the Trust Board.
    Llangollen Railway Trust Ltd - Press release 16 March 2021
    The directors of Llangollen Railway Trust Ltd have greatly appreciated the extensive and sensitive support of the media when the impending demise of the PLC was announced. The coverage engendered much support from the general public for which the directors would like to express their gratitude.
    We have also received much support from local MP, Simon Baynes and AM, Mark Isherwood, Denbighshire County Council and Llangollen Town Council, all of which is much appreciated too.
    Whilst the PLC will go into administration or liquidation shortly, the Trust remains fully solvent and debt-free, and the directors will be considering the options over the next few days and weeks. The first task is to preserve the line and then to bid for such assets of the PLC as limited resources will permit. Directors and key volunteers are compiling a list of assets they consider essential for the continued running of the railway.
    The Trust does own 3 locomotives as well as passenger rolling stock which, together with the Railcar and Diesel Groups, will be able to operate after regulatory, legal and licensing matters have been resolved.
    The assets of the PLC are now effectively available for sale to the highest bidder. Consequently the Trust needs to raise as much money as possible for this purpose in 3 ways:
    ● Donations - the easiest way to donate is perhaps online at https://llangollenrailway.enthuse.com and click the Donate button, or via our Facebook page. For taxpayers, the Railway can apply for 25% Gift Aid. Alternatively, supporters are invited to send cheques payable to Llangollen Railway Trust Ltd to The Station, Abbey Road, Llangollen LL20 8SN. Contrary to some comments in social media, every donation will be for the benefit of the Trust.
    ● Opportunity to acquire heritage assets - by bidding for the assets, such as rolling stock, individuals or groups have a unique opportunity to acquire heritage coaches and other items. It is hoped that, following sale, the items would remain on the Railway.
    ● Thirdly, the opportunity to purchase one or more of the Trust’s steam locomotives - the Trust does not have the income or resources to own and maintain them. Sale of one or more, if completed quickly, would enable the Trust to be a more competitive bidder for the assets of the PLC. Again, it is hoped that the locomotives would remain on the Railway.
    We hope to be able to run trains again later this year but placing a timescale on that would be purely speculative at the moment.
    The volunteers building Corwen station have made excellent progress, albeit necessarily slowed by lockdown, and we do anticipate being able to run to Corwen when the Railway reopens.
    Shareholders of the PLC are reminded that any annual ticket allocation entitlements and lifetime passes will continue to be honoured. Shareholders would need to join the Trust if they are not members already.
    The directors would like to take this opportunity to appeal for members and volunteers to join what is one of the most scenic lines in the heritage movement.
    “It is the aim of the directors to refocus the Trust as an outward looking organisation centred on delivery of a high quality visitor experience, and strengthen partnerships with external agencies to help develop our business plan and articulate what is unique about our railway, its situation and how it complements Llangollen, Corwen and the Dee Valley,” commented chairman, Pete Edwards. “This will require a significant culture change at board level as well as elsewhere, as we look at how we tie in with the cultural life of of the Dee Valley and how we can enhance the events and locations for which Llangollen and the sur-rounding area are already well known.”
    Anyone wishing to contact the Railway, please do so by e-mail at
    commercial@llangollen-railway.co.uk and details will be passed on as appropriate.
    Llangollen Railway Trust Board.

    It seems that the Trust don't think donations alone will be enough, and are considering selling some of their own assets to raise funds to purchase Plc assets, yet the assets the Trust are contemplating selling off to buy Plc assets look pretty important to me. What is it that is owned by the Plc that is so essential to own that it requires selling off locomotives and rolling stock? I thought the Trust had all the important stuff.
     
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  20. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    I don't know who owns what so I can't comment on the specifics, but selling off assets is a practical way of raising cash over and above any donations. Any organisation needs significant operating cash in addition to whatever it costs to purchase assets. The Trust could potentially thin out its collection but it seems more likely the Trust is hoping to agree a deal with a benefactor or owing group to retain the locos (or any other assets for that matter) on the railway. Sadly my pockets are not deep enough and the domestic authorities will not let me mortgage the house, so I'll make a donation instead!
     
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