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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. KristianGWR

    KristianGWR Member

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    A few shots of 7822 'Foxcote Manor' in action last Sunday. Enjoy :)
     
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  2. Crusti Boiler

    Crusti Boiler New Member

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    Companies House is reporting that all members of the Boards of both the Llangollen Railway PLC and the Llangollen Railway Trust have resigned today (Saturday 26th), apart from one person.
    Anyone got any more information?
     
  3. Llangollen_member

    Llangollen_member New Member

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    Yes the following emails have been received from the now ex chair. Unsurprisingly the membership haven't taken kindly to what they have written about Corwen.

    "Board update September 2020


    I hope everyone is keeping well and coping with the new way of living, things have not been easy of late and it doesn’t seem to be getting any easier. We will update you if there are any further restrictions we need to follow.

    Firstly the board would like to say a huge thank you to everyone for all the hard work that has been done to ensure our continued running. The Heritage Railcar group and the Diesel group have done a great job covering services, it will be good to see the 26 running on Saturday. We would also like to thank the Foxcote Manor Society for coming to our rescue and bringing the loco back for a couple of months to allow for maintenance on 5199 and 3802. Jennifer has also done her bit and looks well steaming down the valley.

    Work on the Strategic plan that came out of the Governance review is continuing. We have a new finance manager starting on the 2nd of November, Samantha will be helping update our finance procedures including preparing monthly management accounts and departmental budgets. We have had some responses to the advert for a new chair and they are being progressed. There are many other things happening in the margins that I will update you on regularly.


    Heritage Lottery Emergency Grant - as you are aware we have received £161K the way we spend this is very prescriptive and we have to keep a full record of spend. This grant will help us through part of the closed season but we still need to be careful and try and raise funds from other sources such as our Santa trains. Passenger figures have been positive and pre sales are going well.

    The Heritage Lottery have also provided a mentor for Heritage Railways, the mentor will work with us over the coming months.

    Chris Simon has retired as volunteer liaison officer after many years of sterling work, I will be taking Chris and his wife out to lunch as a small thank you. We put a request out for someone to take over form Chris and a few of you responded. I am pleased to tell you that Maureen Theobald will be the new volunteer liaison officer, Maureen has lots of experience in this area and we feel she will do a great job. Chris has agreed to do a full hand over which means Maureen can hit the ground running.


    Santa trains are now on sale, they will be very different this year so that we can adhere to social distancing and keep everyone as safe as possible. The way they will run is as follows;

    Before visitors board the train at Llangollen they will be given their drink and treat in a bag to take on the train with them, they will also be given an envelope which contains their special gift ticket which they have to give to the elves at Carrog to enable them to get a gift. Once the train arrives at Carrog visitors will disembark and follow the trail to Santa’s grotto. The Grotto will be a wooden chalet type building similar to those you get a t Christmas Markets, Santa will be in the chalet and children can walk past and wave but not enter, they can take a picture from outside the chalet but they won’t be able to get close to Santa. There will be a second chalet next to Santa that houses the elves and the gifts, children will hand their ticket to the elves and receive a gift in return. The tickets will be coded to the relevant age of the child. Visitors will then walk back on to the station past the café through the one way system, they can then visit the café and toilets. There will be two magic acts on the platform keeping people amused why they wait. Visitors can visit the café first if they wish. It has taken a lot of planning to try and sort out a workable Santa experience, visitors are aware that they cannot meet Santa as before and the experience will be different. The trains will be dressed as will Carrog station.

    We have had a visit for Steve Turner (ORR) within the last few weeks and all went well.

    As you are all aware we have stopped carrying out the majority of contract engineering, to this end 4160, B17 & Desmond are due to leave the railway within the next few weeks. Once we have the shed clear we are hoping to make some changes to allow the diesel group to have a place in the shed for maintenance.

    The date for the AGM will be announced shortly, this has been delayed due to the restrictions regarding meetings and trying to plan the best way forward for all members and shareholders.





    Corwen update

    Further to various speculation with regards to the building of the on platform building and the canopy at Corwen the board would like to confirm next steps. Firstly the board would like to thank the Corwen project team for the fantastic work they have done on the project. The build has been a huge achievement and we are very proud of what has been achieved. The next stage is the completion of the on platform building and the canopy which will be done in phase 3 and by a different project team. There will be architects plans released towards the end of this week which will show what the canopy and building will look like. The information below explains how we have reached this stage. The canopy will be the first item to be erected to protect the subway. While this is being constructed provision will be made for toilet facilities for our visitors. Due to the fact that the train is at Corwen for 20 minutes visitors can stay in the station ticket office in inclement weather.

    The Heritage Group was reformed and the terms of reference approved at the LR Board meeting in November 2018. In these terms it was agreed that the Board would seek advice and recommendations from the Heritage Group Committee whenever plans were submitted for developments that affected the visual appearance of the Railway.


    During the Late Spring of 2019 we learnt from an approach to Quentin McGuinness by John Mason advising Quentin that he required him to source GWR pattern doors and informed Quentin that he was planning to use some recovered upvc double glazed windows. A timescale wasn’t indicated exactly and there was no indication who was paying for their production.


    On the 11th August 2019 Quentin McGuinness received the concept drawing of the Corwen groups proposed platform building. This was in response to his verbal request to Richard whilst helping them on the 10th August 2019 to dig out a trench with John Bearne. Richard states that they were still waiting for EWP to provide final drawings. The concept drawing rang immediate alarm bells. Quentin forwarded it to Dave Redfern who had already been appointed as the consultant alongside Oxford Architects, to progress an outline scheme for the front building at Corwen. His response was: “The whole scale of the thing is way too small. The windows are two panes high and the doors should have fan lights above. The whole thing is totally wrong.”

    Richard ended by saying “Look forward to taking delivery of the windows and doors prior to commencement of the building being constructed.

    On 18th November2019, Richard sent a list of required doors and windows to Quentin. There were no dimensions given. He said the size of the doors and windows will be accommodated in the construction works.

    At this point I was not prepared to start getting quotes for expensive doors and windows, given that it was quite obvious from their concept drawing that the proposed building was too small in height to take them.

    Nothing further was progressed on the matter. It was becoming obvious that the Corwen group were planning to construct the building without reference to the design for the front building.


    Bob Gordon alerted me in January that the team had erected columns at the west end of the Station without reference to the board with an ugly piece of metal pipe joining them together like a goal post.

    Quentin took a photograph of this and presented it to the Board meeting on 12th January 2020. The meeting voted unanimously apart from John Bearne (Corwen team) to ask the Corwen team to stop work on the building and to show us the architectural drawings.


    At the subsequent mediation meeting with Laura Norris in attendance as an independent consultant we made it clear that the appearance of the “waste pipe goal post” was unacceptable to us. We had also now been shown the canopy design and this had not had any architectural input. The canopy featured an ugly add on section to the north side to cover the area of the curved portion that wasn’t reached by the rectangular design. It also highlighted that the canopy was going to be much lower than a normal GWR station and therefore the building too. This was clearly just the structural engineer’s response to a lack of architectural input. Richards’s response was why do we need architects plans? Carrog didn’t have any!


    It was agreed conclusively that the Corwen group would complete the platform build plus facing edging and the relevant steel work for the building only (as that had been ordered) Following this the design of the building and canopy will constitute phase 3 of the Corwen project. The design feasibility and construct of this part of the project will fall to the full board in the first instance to develop. The delivery of this phase will require consideration.


    EWP attended the second half of the meeting alongside Architect, Charles Webster from oxford Architects. They had nothing to suggest regarding the unsightly cross pipe and the planned torsion bar arrangement above the subway. It was agreed that Charles and Dave Redfern would meet to consider the EWP drawings and make recommendations; Charles and Peter from EWP swopping contact details for onward consultation.


    Charles somewhat reluctantly agreed to try and provide some details within 14 days of the meeting. However, when he met with Dave Redfern at the first possible date 10 days later it was clear that there was a lot of research required to design a suitable canopy and platform building given the foundations already built in the platform. Consequently a lot of time has been spent building up a scheme based on authentic principles. Quentin have personally made trips to stations at Didcot, Cholsey and Pangbourne to photograph details and take pertinent measurements. At the time of lockdown for Covid, the drawings were only at a very basic stage. Charles recommenced work on them (amongst other jobs) during July when staff returned from furlough.


    We were presented two possible schemes for the canopy at the July 26th Board meeting. The first included the retention of the Blackfriars columns which would have to retain the ugly cross pipe and torsion wires, the second utilising a new design of columns based on Newbury, Birmingham Moor Street, Wrexham etc, that was strong enough to not require extra pipes and wires. Additionally the second design would allow full height canopy and building to be constructed. The new column design was unanimously approved as the scheme to adopt.


    William Jones was asked as the proposed Project manager to contact Dave Redfern to help with the proposed scheme. William has had some considerable input into the design work with David and the column and lattice girder details were presented to the September 12th Board meeting.


    We expect to receive coloured graphics of the canopy design with the building only indicated (yet to be designed) this week. Charles, David and William will not progress the building until the Revised Canopy Design receives approval by EWP for its ability to withstand wind loadings. If EWP request any modification then it could affect the building too. The station building steelwork recently completed will require additional structures on top to reach the required height for support of the canopy. Current work this week has been initial designs for the roof trusses based at Didcot and Pangbourne.


    I would like to point out that under the new conditions of our Governance review, we are taking a responsible decision over what is required at Corwen Station, in a way that the previous Boards didn’t. Whatever gets built now of any substance would be almost impossible to remove at a later date. We want to make the station a quality terminus/gateway to the Railway that EVERYONE can be proud of, not just the Corwen team. The current columns have come in for criticism from volunteers at the SVR and no doubt we would get more in the future if they remain. What is being designed now will fully complement the front building and we shouldn’t be rushed into accepting a compromise.


    The board agree that the team have done a good job to date and we all look forward to trains running in to Corwen in March 2021.


    We will be producing a newsletter on a 2monthly basis, if anyone has anything they would like to contribute please email admin@llangollen-railway.co.uk


    Llangollen Railway PLC & Trust Board



    Best Wishes

    Liz



    Liz McGuinness

    Chairman Llangollen Railway PLC & Trust"

    "
    As from 5pm this evening I will be standing down as chair and from both boards. Back in January we held a mediated meeting with the Corwen group regarding the building of the on platform waiting room and the canopy. The board wanted to see the architects design for both structures because the Blackfriars columns (that have been cut down ) looked a mess with the large pipe across them. There was only a hand drawn sketch and no architects plans to show what the final building and canopy would look like. The group had the opportunity to continue with the build of the platform building and canopy but were asked to take on board the fact that a new design was needed to remove the stabilising pipes. The group decided against this and agreed to continue with what they were doing to the stage of a completed platform and the steel work for the on platform building after which they would hand over to a group who would do phase 3. After a recent question from Richard Dixon Gough regarding the columns, the board decided to make it clear what had been agreed at the mediation meeting in January. Since then I have had several vicious personal attack emails directed at me personally not at the board from various members. This is unacceptable as the decision was made back in January and agreed by the Corwen team and the Trust board ( not me alone) with an independent mediator.


    I have worked hard to support the Corwen team over the past 2 years and will continue to do so in my role as General Manager. For the past 18 months I have been fighting yes fighting to keep the railway afloat, I have worked with the bank and other stake holders to ensure our survival, I have worked all through lock down and seven days a week since mid-July to ensure our compliance with the ORR and with government regulations. I have only ever had the best interest of the railway at heart yet it seems that just isn’t good enough. We had a governance review at my suggestion which Tom Taylor very kindly helped with and helped gain the funding for the. This review pointed out how progressive boards had failed to take control and that better governance over the railway as a whole was needed. The board are trying to take on board the findings of the governance review but for some reason it looks like the membership would prefer that not to happen and things to carry on as before. The railway will never prosper or receive further grants if we don’t have change, the only reason we were awarded the Heritage Lottery Emergency Grant was because we had gone through the governance review and we were implementing its recommendations. I am not ducking out as some of you may think as I always planned to step down before the next AGM, I am stopping now for my health and sanity as constant malicious emails are not acceptable. The vice chair will now be in positon until a new chair is found.




    Best Wishes

    Liz



    Liz McGuinness

    Chairman Llangollen Railway PLC & Trust"
     
  4. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    Well. That’s a simmering disagreement that has blown up quite spectacularly.

    The Llangollen’s fragile financial situation seems to have been overshadowed by some fundamental disagreements about Corwen. At precisely the wrong time, when the railway should be getting ready to celebrate the line extension.

    I don’t know the background to all of us this, but surely the Corwen team hasn’t been proceeding without an architect’s drawings for the station building and canopy? You can’t go ahead nowadays with a public building without ensuring full compliance with planning, environmental, conservation, disability, accessibility, energy efficiency and fire safety regulations. A building ideally requires a full design being agreed before proceeding with any civics work, including internal layouts and position of utility services, door openings based on traffic routes and pedestrian numbers, heating, lighting and ventilation etc etc. It’s risky and expensive designing as you go...
     
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  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Ouch.

    How on earth did all that happen?
     
  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Oh dear. Shades of the worst bits of the Broadway disagreement and the long running WSR saga. I don't understand why that has led to the resignation of 100% of both boards of directors, save 1 person common to both, though. Is it related or coincidence that both items of news have come out at once?
     
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  7. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    The Chair of Llangollen Railway and The Chair of WSR were very chummy on FB. Lots of encouragement and thumbs up between them.

    An individual Obersvation.

    Nick
     
  8. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    The 'large pipes' do indeed sound just like what we had at Broadway, where the designer/builder planned box section steel to erupt from walls that should not have been there. This was not at all apparent on day 1. Here too those in charge of the project (no longer present) had no intention of building according to GWR designs, but simply something that 'looked right from a distance', in the words of the project director.

    Today our station at Broadway has won a heritage award and is admired by everyone.

    Build something that you will be proud of. You will never regret that you went the extra mile!
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I believe this is the offending 'pipe':
    Untitled.png
    Photo from the Corwen Newsletter.

    I have to say that I am in agreement with the objectors - it does look very out of place compared to the ornate columns, which themselves actually look a little odd because they've been reduced in size. It is a pity that the design and debate could not have taken place in an open manner with all parties before work began. The redesign and replacement of pillars will drain money which I'm sure could have been used more effectively elsewhere.

    Keith
     
  10. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Absolutely, would anyone guess that Kidderminster Town and it’s Signal Box are both the same age as me?
     
  11. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    Straight from a chemical plant! It looks weird.
    I imagine the ground level is where their knees are, in which case their heads will be only inches below the pipes. How could you squeeze a building under that?
     
  12. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    The railway directors need to read their own Articles of Association.

    7 (b) "...the number of Directors shall be not less than four and not more than nine...."

    They are not permitted by law to all walk out at the same time. If they all want to go then they'd have to co-opt at least four new Directors to take their place. The last four to hand in their resignations (or last four signatures on the common resignation document) would not be permitted to resign. (And it doesn't bother what they say, those last four still carry all the legal responsibilities and duties of Directors until they are suitably replaced)

    I haven't bothered to look at the trust's Articles yet but I'm betting they say something similar.
     
  13. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    That looks terrible. Has the local planning department given permission for secondhand cast iron columns to be used?
     
  14. Crusti Boiler

    Crusti Boiler New Member

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    It looks as though this is the straw that broke the camel's back, rather than the issue which has forced the actual resignations.
    Recent reports in the magazines quoted from an independent review done by consultants, apparently at the bank's request, which was pretty damning 0f the ability of the boards, citing conflicts of interest amongst other matters. Having the same person chairing both boards, who was also the paid GM, was one of the things specifically mentioned. As a result an advert has been placed for a new chairman from outside.
    I can see why the members are as unhappy as they are. Looking back only five years or so Llangollen was a leader in contract engineering, it was the 'new-build' capital of the country, it has a good home fleet of engines, its finances were in good order and the business seemed to be running well.
    Now it is on its financial uppers, the contract engineering side has been shut down, staff made redundant, former new-build customers are it would appear far from happy and even the line's flagship loco 'Foxcote Manor' spends most of its time elsewhere. Rumours abound of other problems, too, including discontent amongst the volunteers.
    It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
     
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  15. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

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    The cross pieces are for wind bracing until the canopy with associated cross girders is fixed to the tops of the columns. When the canopy is completed these will be removed.

    Bob.
     
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  16. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I am pretty sure you are wrong. A director is allowed to resign even if it brings the number below that stated in the articles or even in the case where it would leave a company with no directors. It would be a breach of the Companies Act 2006 but it would be the Company that is in breach not the directors who resign. The shareholders need to call a meeting to appoint new directors to remedy the breach.

    There are plenty of scenarios and good reasons why directors can resign leaving a company with directors below a set number or nil.
     
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  17. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    I think it has, maybe like many railways, been in a slightly finically precarious position as I remember hearing a discussion by various staff/volunteers in the tea room at Corwen several years ago when Brit Allcroft had the Thomas franchise and it basically was that they were very reliant on the income from Christmas and Thomas Events. If they lost one of those then it would be a struggle.
     
  18. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    Hopefully whoever initiated the works is a civil or a structural engineer and is working to a set of plans...otherwise starting construction and hoping for the best normally leads to expensive pain and heartache in the future! The sensible approach is to have an agreed, phased development plan for the site together with a schedule of works and materials (so that they can be steadily acquired or sponsored etc).

    It’s nice to try and use salvaged materials and take advantage of ‘bargain materials’ but only if they serve a useful purpose. Upvc doors and windows for example would seem out of keeping with a GWR style station. If there are no conservation restrictions then possibly wood effect upvc might work but real wood looks better, or if the railway wants to make a bold design statement go with an Art Deco style station with steel framed doors & windows.

    All of this is irrelevant if there’s no one actually left in charge!
     
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  19. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

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    The steelwork design was carried out by a professional (& expensive!) structural engineer. The building is being constructed with GWR style brickwork and hardwood framed double glazed windows in the style of other buildings along the line.
    Why would you think that there's nobody in charge ?

    Bob.
     
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  20. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Are there drawings of the proposed station structures? I feel sure I read an article about this development a year or two back, but the Corwen Development article on Llangollen Railway website only has a track layout drawing
     

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