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LE Movements, ECS and Test Runs 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Big Al, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    Err - he's only entitled to the extent that the law allows.

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  2. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    The problem I have with Mr Hosking is his ability to acquire a rather unhealthy monopoly in the mainline steam market. I’m sure the Saphos operation is just a tax loss to him so he can undercut the other operators on fares. The whole market seems to be polarising into two camps. West Coast now have a healthy fleet of their own locomotives so why should they pay steaming fees to a third party locomotive. Do they charge extra if a tour operator wants to use anything other than their locos? I can understand why they would.
    That leaves Saphos to hoover up the independently own locomotives as part of their ever increasing operating fleet.
    I have left out Vintage trains, who have yet to prove themselves, and DBC. The latter now only operate one engine, mainly involved in a niche luxury market and their commitment long term must be questionable, although they do currently hire crews to Saphos.
     
  3. ianpilk

    ianpilk New Member

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    Apologies to Mr Hosking for inadvertently spelling his name incorrectly.
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Err I wouldn’t exactly say Saphos is cheap at the mo! John I appreciate you have friends at 10A but not that long ago wasn’t there a disagreement regarding stock and a loco resulting in a very short notice cancellation? Then of course we could mention 2 previous situations that involved safety equipment whilst that TOC had a near enough monopoly on mainline charters?
    We heading into rather murky territory here so maybe it’s time to give things a rest?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
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  5. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think you might be referring to a cancellation that involved a loco that I have a particular interest and it was a very unfortunate episode. I didn’t say Saphos are obtaining an unhealthy monopoly but it’s in the back of the mind that their owner has the ability to do so.
     
  6. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Looking at the fares quoted for this years trips, Saphos £99 Standard, £165 1st and £320 dining, with WCR Standard £85/90, 1st £135/145 and dining £249/265 and RTC in the same range, so not undercutting at all.
     
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  7. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    Yet Standard isn't available for Saphos, so the cheapest is £165
     
  8. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Possibly so, makes sense and also explains why just so much cash is being flung around.

    I note from the most recent SR that VT also intend to hire in crews from DBC is needed, the whole DBC thing seems very odd insofar as companies are depending on them to be almost a spot driver hire business, is it going to be worth their while to train enough drivers long term.
     
  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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  10. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    The key phrase in my post is ‘ability to’.
     
  11. Mike Wylie

    Mike Wylie New Member

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    60007, D213, 40145 and 46233 say hello.
     
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I see where your coming from, but I think the monopoly years are behind us, now we have DB, WC, ST, and on a smaller scale VT, NYMR and LT.
    Not steam related then there’s GBRF as well I find it interesting that several modern traction groups seem to enjoy a positive working relationship with senior figures there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
  13. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

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    Just to clarify on a weekday the afternoon Jacobite will operate with 7 on it and on a Saturday with only 6 and potentially diesel hauled in times of high fire risk?
     
  14. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

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    Are you saying that DBC no longer operate 60163? The reason I ask is I presume the one engine you are referring to is Clan Line.
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    In theory they may do but I think all the recent trips have been operated by West Coast
     
  16. Sam 60103

    Sam 60103 Member

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    All movements of Tornado including positioning moves in 2020 were operated by West Coast. Its last DBC run was in December 2019.
     
  17. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Ah, but....... It did have a couple of DB jobs booked last year which, like so many, were lost to the pandemic. That said, I do not know of any such plans for it this year. Every thing this year is going to be very tentative and I think that it will be next year before we really get to see what the post pandemic steam world will likely look like in terms of operations.

    Peter
     
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  18. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    Echo this.

    AFAIK DBC retain more steam on their books than just 35028. Likewise Individual loco owning groups still have their locos on the books of multiple TOC’s. 2020 just wasn’t the year to see the realised potential of what a wealth of steam we currently have.
     
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  19. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    The only other regular loco they worked was 60163 and now they seem to have lost that.
     
  20. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    To list a couple: 6233, 60103, the LSL fleet I’m assuming remains?? 6024 and 60007 owning groups have made it clear that while operations are set to be mainly with LSL they are open to running with other TOCS too.
     

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