L&B Coach at the NRM

OH HEAVENS YES!!!

 

Sadly I cannot offer you any money though... :-(

 

Curses. Back to museumjobs.com for me then

 

But keep looking!

 

"Also at York is a double Fairlie"

Which does not appear to exist according to the Museum website. The FR (and the WHR) don't appear in the drop-down list of railway companies either.

 

Out of interest Anthony, would you be able to provide a list of locos, rolling stock and any other pieces of railway equipment that are in the NRM's care that are in use or under overhaul for use? Off the top of my head I can think of:

Iron Duke GWSR (Didcot)
70013 GCR/Mainline
44027 GWSR
30120 B&WR
30587 B&WR
63601 GCR
49395 NYMR
30850 MHR
30925 MHR
60103 Riley's
30777 GCR/Mainline
3717 GWSR

And that's just the Steam locos - I can think of at least two items of rolling stock in use too - the Queen Mary and the Mk 1 in the South Yard.

 

I will get on to that Andrew, thanks and apologies

 

I will get on to that Andrew, thanks and apologies

 

Thanks Anthony.

 

Apologies too for the double posting, the perils of using one of these crumble and custard devices on the train!

 

A few photos taken last Friday...

 

It really is remarkably complete - so much of that would be lost in a restoration project.

 

+1 for that. It really does look remarkably good.

 

I have read the posts up to this point,I did a lot of the modification to Van 23's chasis with JMS, so I know what it all looks like.

I would like to commend Anthony and his team at the NRM Publically , on their deep regard for originality of this item within a vast collection of railway things, the item has given a datum for reference because its so original, those who started out to recreate L&B coaches and other vehicles inclubing the thorpe park coaches, being used, called on the dimensions and data from this vehicle, in their quest to build new.

There are now several projects that are workable within the sphere of the L&B of today or will be soon, so seeing what operational vehicles are like, and to ride in them will soon be a situation some can enjoy.If you want more of them build more new ones.

If this vehicle is without display details then some of the complainants should make it their business to offer to put that right rather than complain, therfore assisting the NRM with a big task, they have.

Whatever happens in the future on the L&B revival, however you see that personally, this coach should be kept in an "as is condition".

One day it migt be nice to see it in a suitable climate controlled building in North Devon. But that is hardly a priority. Well done the NRM and its team on this one for originality, that we can visit to check detail.

Best Regards TheEngineer

 

The Engineer is quite right; "If you want more of them build more new ones."
If you go to the following address, you can help do just that: Heritage Coaches | Lynton_&_ Barnstaple_Railway

 

You might consider as a parallel example the WHR buffer car recovered from a welsh hillside in two pieces, but still with its bogies underneath. I believe about 30% of the woodwork was fit to re-use in a running vehicle, so you would lose a lot of the originality: the practical question is, how much money does such a restoration cost, compared with building from new? With all the fuss involved, the former may be more expensive.

There are different ways of approaching a complex problem. Depending on the circumstances, they may all be right.


Tim

 

L&B Coach 17, based on about 1/3 of the original timber structure being reusable, will eventually cost around £25K for the bodywork, £8K for the underframe, £23K, for bogies, plus couplings, interior fittings and fixtures, glazing, statutory certification, then there's transport, storage and the like... Not much change from £65,000, and that is probably an under-estimate.

Building to a standard modern design is likely to be a bit cheaper, both to build in the first place, and to operate (lighter, so cheaper to haul) & maintain subsequently, but neither option is exactly cheap..

 

This topic is about wether the almost exactly original L&B coach, the only one remaining one in any complete form should even ever be considered for rebuilding, the cost of which is irrelivant.

I believe it should remain wholly in the custody of the NRM,there it is safe, it should never be refirbished more than stopping it deteriorating.

Because that destroys the very fabric and history of what it is.
Its a historic artefact, in a Museum and should remain so.

There are those amongst us who quite like to look at things which are old and are original, not recreated.
We have particular reason to need or want to look at these items for interest and detail.

I don't criticise the work being done in Essex, because its to an exceptional standard I acnowledge the "master Craftsman behind the work" that also there are many of the STD Gauge coaches which are restored or being restored and a joy to feel the ambience of and ride in.
Many of them were totally derilict and rotten and all that remains is the underframe!
Very few were so complete as this coach.
Many of these projects for which you offer "costs" £65,000 are "material cost only" you won't pay a group of men or ladies to build a replica coach "X" for less than about £250 K on a comercial basis.

But if people want to create the old in their time well thats brilliant too.I think we all aplaud them for their efforts.

Regards TheEngineer.

 

I feel that your post should also be preserved in its original condition.

 

Hi Andy,

The OP was actually enquiring about if the NRM had any plans to restore Coach 2, and what others thought of the idea of repatriating it to N. Devon? , but never mind, threads do wonder from time to time. I think "almost exactly original" is probably a bit over generous - It had been working hard for almost 40 years before being left in a field for many more. I think "as found" is a more accurate term. The cost is an attempt to partially answer the previous question, even if not relevant to the OP.

I think you are probably right there, although as I said earlier, it is THEIR property, and the decision is entirely theirs to make (within the NRM charitable aims, charter etc.) Of course, some would say it shouln't even been conserved, but left to decay, or even left where it was, in truly archaelogical fashion. All opinions have their validities.

Indubitably!

Exactly, there is nothing like the genteel splendour, degradation and decay of an ancient artefact found as it was left, and to restore any historic carriage to modern operating standards must introduce so many compromises as to destroy what it seeks to save. In an ideal world, perhaps a static replica of coach 1 in as-built condition could stand beside Coach 2 by way of comparison?

All things are possible - although some are very unlikely!

True, I could have made that clearer, although the underframes and bogies are, I believe, costed at commercial rates. Not that it really matters, as Coach 2 is very likely to remain in situ at York for a considerable time yet!

Agreed - "Horses for courses" and all that.