KWVR L&Y Locos

Does anyone know how advanced the overhauls of 957 and 752 are. I think the former is "in the queue" and the latter making some progress but with no end in sight - is this correct.
The restoration of TVR 85 shows what a great job Haworth can do. Can't wait for one or other (or both) of the L&Y beauties on the L&Y set. Was about to say Horwich beauties but of course they are both pre-Horwich BP products! I suppose 752 was rebuilt into a saddle tank at Horwich.

 

Well, 957 is currently sat in the oxenhope exhibition shed and to my knowledge overhaul has not yet begun, as for 752 i saw bits of it around Haworth last time I visited but I'm not sure how advanced the overhaul is on this loco.

 

TVR 85 has I believe had its overhaul fast tracked as the railway needed a smaller engine for off peak services & has proved itself a capable machine, just the job. This engine is I think owned by the railway.

957 & 752 are of course owned/in the care of the L&Y society so will have different funding arrangements & priorities. Sadly I think it unlikely that both 957 & 752 will be in steam together, more likely one in, one out kind of principal.

I would view 957 as stuffed & mounted for now especially having had a recent 10 year (?) spell of running.

Here's the latest info on 752 which is classed as a current restoration project............ The restoration is hopefully to progress faster now that boiler testing is under way and there is the possibility of securing covered accommodation for our exclusive use at another railway site. Although this would mean relocation from Haworth of the chassis and new saddletank, it is expected that reassembly of the boiler and chassis will be easier,, The design of L&Y locos in the 1880s means that the new front tubeplate requires to be cropped to fit onto the cylinder block and then to fit a new smokebox – the current one being life expired. A newly-cast chimney is available to fit, being cast at same time as new chimneys for 957 and 1300

 

Hi forty - Do you know if 752 is going to be permanently relocated to another Railway, or if it's to return to, and be based on the KWVR still? I think it would be a real shame if 957 & 752 were separated, as they represent 100% of the preserved Barton Wright legacy, and are directly linked as an original and an Aspinall rebuild.

Richard.

 

Don't know to be honest at the moment, I'll try & find some more info.

 

752 I think has only run on a few occasions in preservation although it did make it to rainhill. It would be great to see it in steam again as I was only 18 months old at rainhill

 

I had the pleasure of being rostered at Bold colliery on 752 along with RS Greenwood and lit her up the day before the first cavalcade, eventually becoming a short lived caretaker of her on return to the KWVR, we only ran her for a few odd days, she had a constant fizzle from a pin hole in the firebox wrapper low on the rhs. between a patch weld and the plate, annoying, but in itself not terminal, but this along with constantly overheating big ends and life expired tubes rang her death knell, lovely little loco though.
Andy

 

Andy thanks for the information. I went to rainhill with my parents. I think it made a lasting impression on me.

 

As far as I know the owners of 752 have been offered and accepted workshop space at Bury in the standard 4 shed previously occupied by 80097 at Bolton Street station. @std.tank will know more.

 

I can't blame the owners of 752 if they have accepted a better offer of accommodation, but I think it's a shame that the KWVR seems to be losing some of its family jewels these days.
The volunteer base seems to have almost completely changed since the days of the '70s to the early 2000s, and that includes some of the younger members I used to see and talk to in Haworth yard. I've heard some rumblings of discontent from members still there, but I do wonder if something has been lost over the years? Modern preserved railways seem to have moved so far on from the grass-roots preservation days - most of it being for the better, but I do feel that something has been lost... Same with bus preservation which I'm involved with.

Richard.

 

It also made quite an impression on 'Hardwick' when it didn't stop quite as quickly as expected! Fortunately with no damage to 752 - they made L&Y engines tough. Pity the same couldn't be said of Hardwick's buffer beam.
Ray.

 

I too have heard that 752 might be moving to Bury, to the Std 4 shed for completion of overhaul. At the moment space can not be offered at Haworth, but the offer for space at Bury after the Standard 4 tank is completed will help ensure the overhaul has a chance of being completed.

I believe that this arrangement is only for the completion of the overhaul although I may be wrong and plans may have changed, but as far as I know the Society don't have any current plans of moving.

957 is waiting its turn for overhaul, there's a chance it may be considered for overhaul, but it has to compete with the other locos already waiting.

It's like everything else, it all comes down to money and people.

 

My sentiments entirely.

 

Surely, it is up to the loco's owners, the L & Y Trust, to announce what is happening with their loco.

 

If it did go to Bury, it would be back on L&Y metals.
I suppose 752 is slightly niche in the sense of being a shunting saddle tank, but from a mainline company. Similar to 813 which will shortly be gracing the SVR again, I understand.
I think 752 is most handsome.
I would love to see 957 in her L&Y green. Did she actually wear that livery or had it gone by then? Presumably 752 wore it, as a tender loco.

 

According to Barry C. Lane (Lancashire & Yorkshire Locomotives [2010] Pendragon ISBN 978 1 8998 16 17 1) 957 was an August 1887 build by Beyer Peacock. He also states that the green / brown livery was 'simplified' by the 1870s and 'luggage' engines became progressively plain black. The green continued to the mid 1880s, so she was probably black throughout her life.

Although 752 is a saddle tank, she was built as a tender loco, being converted by John Aspinall in April 1896.

 

Hi Richard

I know the feeling, it used to be fun to go and work on a railway at weekends, but I think the feeling is now that it has to make money and while I don't have that sort of money to put into a project any more, it feel's like business has taken over a hobby, it is the same with charitable work as well.

 

957 is not "waiting its turn for overhaul". She never has been nor is she now "in a queue". She is not a KWVR owned locomotive nor has she ever been, although her owners since 1996 have always worked in complete harmony and concert with the KWVR and its wishes. Given this status, she is not nor ever has been in competition with the Railway's fleet for funding or other resources. She has never been owned, nor is she now owned, by the 'L & Y Society'.

Along with a partner, I am one of the two trustee owners who bought 957 in 1996 from her former private owner, raised the finance (much of which was came from us) and organised her overhaul. Since 1996 she has been owned by a Charity, the Bowers 957 Trust of which until recently, we were the only two trustees. We personally provided all the enterprise and a large part of the funding to buy and overhaul her in 1996. Subsequently we managed her operations until she was withdrawn for a ten year overhaul in 2013.Having put considerable sums of our own money into her overhaul about 23 years ago and expended huge amounts of effort on her overhaul then and on her subsequent operation, we both felt that the time had come to hand her over to the KWVR for her future well being. Owning, financing and being responsible for a steam locomotive is a huge part of one's life and we are glad that representatives of the KWVR have now come forward to carry on that work.

She remains the property of the Bowers Trust, but new trustees are now in place to ensure that she will be overhauled and continue to be a part of the KWVR's 'vintage locomotive' fleet. Her retention on the KWVR is written into the Trust Deed of the Trust which owns her. Transfer of control took place earlier this year and she was moved to Haworth to continue the overhaul which has already had exploratory work done before the move from Oxenhope, on 9th July.

Personally, as a volunteer of 47 years standing and former Trustee of this locomotive, I can say that she was fun to own and I still find it fun to work on a preserved railway. But anyone who thinks that it is a weekends only job is on another planet. Heritage railways have to be sustainable in the very long term or they will cease to exist. For them to do that, they need to have enough money and enough people to spend it, both in the very long term; those two prime needs also describe a business. Someone somehow has to pay for the "hobby" of "working on a railway at weekends" and that applies whether it is a charity or not. Heritage Railways behave like and are a business and if they are not treated as such, they will cease to be.

 

Just a bit extra 'useless' information on the Rainhill incident with Hardwicke -
The driver on Hardwicke that day was a long term family friend, the late Fred Williams of Dallam shed in steam days on what was I think his only steam turn post 68. The low speed impact happened right in front of the stand where his wife and daughter were sat.

Scott